[mpire]

The new Z4 is the last ditch effort to recapture the sales success of the Z3. If it does poorly as well, I anticipate they will just phase out the whole Z line.

They already shut down the line in South Carolina and shipped all the equipment to Europe. The whole reason they built the factory here in the USA was to build the Z3 cars.

BMW has given up on the whole Z line and thinks all us Americans want are SUVs. No one else in the world wants them, thats for sure!

[mpire]

Your beloved Z4 will be priced at around 10 grand eventually. Hate to break the news to you. I currently have 6 cars, so I am not in need of another one just yet. I have had plenty of cars in the past, and will have plenty more in the years to come. What experience do you have on the track with other cars?

Go ahead and compare the Z4 M Coupe to the next M Coupe, it will just be another 1 series. I am sure they will have plenty in common.

On another note, I have driven the Z4 M Coupe on a racetrack, so I think I can put together a pretty good opinion on how well it does on the track. Have you ever driven a Z3 on the track? I drove the Z4 M Coupe at the BMW PDS before you could even find them at the dealership. I was seriously considering one to be honest, but it was a big let down.

And as far as sales successes, all M Coupes/Roadsters were a failure. So what. The model it was based on is what really matters. The M Cars are there to help sell those common cars that you care so little about. I think the Z3s with any motor are more entertaining than the Z4. The Z4 is too big, too slow, and you can't see out the back of the coupe. But thats just my opinion.

Stock for stock, I was outrunning the Z4 M Coupes in a Z4 3.0si with an AUTOMATIC. So I have a very lowly opinion of the Z4 M on the track.

The Z3 still outsold the Z4 3 to 1.

[fitchesbass]

I think it comes down you just being the man.

Dude, your awesome. 6 cars wow! You must be rich. And one hell of a driver too! Man, I bet you get lots of ladies.


Congrats man - you win the Z3 is just amazing (gods gift to earth) and I really just don't get it because I just bought an M coupe because I thought it would bring me women. Little did I know that the Z3 outsold the Z4 and that directly makes the Z4 a horrible car. Not to mention I lack all technical knowledge and completely don't understand marketing and how production numbers correlate how well a car is designed.

My apologies for my poor analysis - clearly you are well educated and outsmarted me.

[mpire]

Originally Posted by fitchesbass

Dude, your awesome. 6 cars wow! You must be rich. And one hell of a driver too! Man, I bet you get lots of ladies.
.

What are you, 16?

[epbrown]

Originally Posted by fitchesbass

ugh I don't think you read a thing I said.

Pretty much - you could have stopped there and quit posting. I know from experience that there's no point in discussing this with mpire. Let it go.

[fitchesbass]

MPIRE some analysis from a different forum's member whom has the technical details (Credits to HACK for the review)

I'm not going to get into the discussion as to which car is more classic or worth more or whatnot...The truth is BMW couldn't give either cars away when they're under production. Z3Ms, at the end of the production run, was subject to the same kind of trunk cash Z4Ms were.

As for actual mechanicals, here's a simple break-down. Don't let ANYONE who doesn't know how to drive a car and drive it freakin' FAST on the track tell you that the trailing arm design of the Z3M is inferior to the Z4. It is the same trailing arm design that won the E30 M3 countless touring car championships and made the M3 the winningest race car ever. Even in the 80s and early 90s it was lightyears ahead of its time. The only advancements made with multilink suspensions, is it's got favorable suspension geometry for average, everyday drivers in that it does not exhibit bump steer under the extremes of suspension compression. Other than that, the trailing arm suspension is lighter, easier to get a lot of negative camber, and have almost all of the benefits of modern day multilink suspension. In the hands of a good driver, there's very little difference in terms of actual laptime. The only real disadvantage comes from when you want to lower the car, once lowered past a certain point it becomes increasingly difficult to keep a consistent camber on a rear trailing arm design.

Now, where the Z4M shines above the Z3M, is actually in the chassis rigidity. The Z4MR has a chassis rigidity of 12,000Nm/degree, the Z3MR has a chassis rigidity of wet, well cooked spaghetti noodles. (9,600Nm/degree) The Z4MC has a chassis rigidity of something ridiculous, 32,000Nm/degree of deflection, while the Z3MC has a commendable 19,000Nm/degree. The stiffer chassis means less body deflection upon cornering, again, to your average driver, this means Jack and sh*t. And Jack just left town. But put it in the hands of a driver who knows what they're doing? The nearly 25-70% improvement in chassis rigidity means the Z4MR and Z4MC will be significantly more planted and predictable through turns on the track, and likely several seconds faster in the hands of the said competent driver on a 2 minute road-course.

Next, we have a 6 speed transmission coupled to the new ///M variable LSD vs. a 5 speed saddled with the same 30% lock-up LSD on an E36 M3. That means, at any time the Z4MC/R is capable of putting up to 100% of available 330HP to the rear wheel with the most traction. That also means it can actually redirect more power to the OUTSIDE tire to aid turn-in. That, again, also means the Z4MC/R is constantly putting down more power in each gear since the diff ratio is more favorable on the Z4MC/R. In the end, the lap time is the tell all as to which chassis is better. Look at the Nurburgring lap times:

http://www.supercars.net/PitLane?fID...3&viewThread=y

8:15 --- 149.82 km/h - BMW Z4 M Roadster, 343 PS/1485 kg
8:32 --- 144.84 km/h - BMW M Roadster, 321 PS/1410 kg (sport auto 09/97) *Note: This is the M Roadster with the European S52 outputting the same HP as the S54 installed in the later M Roadsters

The unfortunately part of either car, is that they're released at a time when BMW buyers are increasingly looking for larger, more comfortable, luxury cruisers. If the Z4MC/R were released during the time of Z3MC/R, it probably would have out-sold the Z3 by a 2:1 margin. Unfortunately, between 2006-2008, it just wasn't prudent to build and sell a high cost, low practicality, high fuel consumption sport car.

And tell your buddy that the only reason the Z3M outsold the Z4M by a 3:1 margin, was because the Z3M was on sale 3 times longer.

[Bents]

[z3speed4me]

why is this subsection even here if there is zpost?

[fitchesbass]

Because M3forum.net does not equal E90post. I believe they are unassociated. Agreed though zpost is pretty good.

[epbrown]

Originally Posted by z3speed4me

why is this subsection even here if there is zpost?

We've got an E90 M3 section here, and they've got M3post. We've got an E46 M3 section here, despite there being one on E46fanatics and Bimmerfest, etc. What's your point?