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M3 Track: Racing and DE Best mod for speed is learning to get the most out of what you currently have. Tracks and DE's is the place to start!


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Old Sat, Mar-23-2019, 10:44:07 AM   #1
M3AN ONE
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Default To Tilton or not to Tilton that is the question

To Tilton or not to Tilton that is the question

I am at a bit of a cross road and need some input from you guys. So I brought my M3 to a mechanic for what I believed was a SMG pump failure issue (car stopped switching gears) Thinking it was SMG issue I thought it would be a good opportunity to do a 6 speed swap. While waiting for CAE Shifter to arrive (5 months) I decided to also get a carbon fiber drive shaft, evolve intake and 280/272 cams all of which is currently being installed. So as you can see I am trying to get the most out of my NA setup and after doing some reading I think the Tilton clutch could help take things to the next level which works out because it turns out the issue I was having was not the SMG pump but rather that a pressure plate bolt on my clutch let go and my clutch fork spring broke. There is also spotting on my Flywheel. Needless to say Its time to get a new clutch/flywheel.

My current setup is a JB Racing light weight flywheel (10lbs) and Clutch Master FX300 kevlar clutch.

So do I 1 just resurface my current flywheel and get a new Clutch Master clutch or 2 resurface my current flywheel and get a OEM clutch ( I hear some trackers do this and dont have issues becuase there cars are NA (this would be the cheapest alternative but I think this option would be inclined to wear the fastest or 3 use this opportunity to upgrade to to a Tilton twin disk? On my current setup the SMG transmission never chattered which for me is ideal (I really do hate chatter my last m3 had it when I upgraded the clutch and flywheel but that was fixed by getting the car remapped and raising the idle speed) from what I read the Tilton Twin disk does chatter and idle surge on rare occasions. So my question is can the chatting and idle surging I hear happens with Tilton clutches be remedied by having a tuner raise the idle speed or is it something I just have to live with? My car is for the most part is a track car but I do like the option of being able to drive it on the streets occasionally and since I live on traffic Island (Long Island) it would only be a matter of time sooner then later before I get stuck in traffic. So Tilton owners how is street drive ability? Keep in mind my supra had a OS Giken Twin disk clutch and I never had a problem with it. Dont get me wrong it was very heavy and was really a work out on drives in traffic. I have fond memory's of when shifting/engaging the clutch at high speeds it sounding like a airplane touching down on a runway and I loved it!!! I have also heard that the Tilton is loud and I am curious if that is the kind of sound they are talking about or if its just a squeaky mechanical type sound when engaging the clutch pedal.

So in a nutshell these are the things I do not want to have to deal with
Car lurching or bucking in traffic.
Excessive chatter in 1st gear neutral and reverse
Surging idle intermittently
All these concerns I do not have with my current setup but I hear the Tilton is best for the track especially with a CAE shifter and CF Driveshaft.I am just hoping its not too much of a cost both literal and figurative.
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2003 M3 Track/HPDE
2018 Triumph 765 RS
2017 Ram 1500 Daily
94' Six Spd 800rwhp *Gone
2005 M3 convertible *Gone
1995 850 T5R *Gone

Last edited by M3AN ONE; Sat, Mar-23-2019 at 10:47:55 AM.
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Old Sat, Mar-23-2019, 12:23:52 PM   #2
bigjae1976
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Default Re: To Tilton or not to Tilton that is the question

From witnessing people trying to get cars onto trailers at a steep incline with small dual clutch setups...I would say itís not suitable for any street use. And would guess that youíre kinda screwed if you stop on a hill with cars behind you.

I believe youíre not supposed to or canít clip the Tilton clutches.


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Old Sat, Mar-23-2019, 03:20:51 PM   #3
eacmen
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Default Re: To Tilton or not to Tilton that is the question

I have the Tilton twin disc ultra light from BW. I love it, but my car is only occasionally driven on the street. I was surprised how streetable the clutch was. There is a fair amount of modulation there. I was able to load it onto trailer without issue the first time I tried.

There is alot of chatter at idle and I had to raise the idle to 1100 RPM to get rid of it. The engine also stalled a couple times in the paddock the first time out because the idle dropped too fast.

The clutch on track is awesome though. Throttle blips are much easier to do.

If you're in the NOVA area and once I get the car on the ground again you're welcome to try it out.
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2001 E46 M3, Tilton Triple Disc Clutch, JRZ RS2 (750/650), ST-40 332mm front BBK, BW TA16 Square 18x9.5, RE-71R 265/35R19, Redish Motorsport Plates, Mason X-Brace, Mason Front Strut Bar, RaceCapture Pro MK3 w/custom Raspberry Pi Dash.
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Old Sat, Mar-23-2019, 05:56:33 PM   #4
M3AN ONE
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Default Re: To Tilton or not to Tilton that is the question

Thanks for the feedback I think i’m going to pull the trigger.
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2003 M3 Track/HPDE
2018 Triumph 765 RS
2017 Ram 1500 Daily
94' Six Spd 800rwhp *Gone
2005 M3 convertible *Gone
1995 850 T5R *Gone
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Old Sat, Mar-23-2019, 07:07:17 PM   #5
eacmen
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Default Re: To Tilton or not to Tilton that is the question

Quote:
Originally Posted by M3AN ONE View Post
Thanks for the feedback I think iím going to pull the trigger.


Awesome. I think you'll like it. Just be sure to install a clutch stop and make sure you follow the instructions on adjusting the pedal. The diameter of the pressure plate is smaller than factory, thus the fingers are shorter so less travel is needed or you will damage the pressure plate.

Also according to Tilton there is no bed in period required as they are bed in at the factory. I went straight from the shop to the track. I still took it easy the first few sessions.
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2001 E46 M3, Tilton Triple Disc Clutch, JRZ RS2 (750/650), ST-40 332mm front BBK, BW TA16 Square 18x9.5, RE-71R 265/35R19, Redish Motorsport Plates, Mason X-Brace, Mason Front Strut Bar, RaceCapture Pro MK3 w/custom Raspberry Pi Dash.
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Old Sat, Mar-23-2019, 07:38:48 PM   #6
Tinnit
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Default Re: To Tilton or not to Tilton that is the question

I might be too late, but my experience has been the opposite. I have a Tilton twin disc and it's more like what bigjae describes. It's an on-off switch that would be miserable for daily driving. I've had many racers drive my car, many of whom have decades of race car driving and/or lightweight discs of their own. Without fail, they all say the clutch is crap. I don't ask them about it; it's the first thing they bring up when they get out of the car. Most stall it the first time they drive it. I've been driving this clutch for 4 years now and I still routinely stall it while loading it on the trailer.

On the track, it's fantastic, but I think a lot of quality lightweight clutches would feel about the same once you're moving.

If I ever have a reason to buy a new clutch, I will not buy this one again.

edit: Mine does chatter, but it's not loud or obnoxious. Sounds like a loose washer under the car. no big deal. I also don't experience any idle surge. Still not worth it.

Last edited by Tinnit; Sat, Mar-23-2019 at 07:42:22 PM.
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Old Sat, Mar-23-2019, 08:06:47 PM   #7
eacmen
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Default Re: To Tilton or not to Tilton that is the question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tinnit View Post
I might be too late, but my experience has been the opposite. I have a Tilton twin disc and it's more like what bigjae describes. It's an on-off switch that would be miserable for daily driving. I've had many racers drive my car, many of whom have decades of race car driving and/or lightweight discs of their own. Without fail, they all say the clutch is crap. I don't ask them about it; it's the first thing they bring up when they get out of the car. Most stall it the first time they drive it. I've been driving this clutch for 4 years now and I still routinely stall it while loading it on the trailer.

On the track, it's fantastic, but I think a lot of quality lightweight clutches would feel about the same once you're moving.

If I ever have a reason to buy a new clutch, I will not buy this one again.

edit: Mine does chatter, but it's not loud or obnoxious. Sounds like a loose washer under the car. no big deal. I also don't experience any idle surge. Still not worth it.


This surprises me. Did you get the clutch from bimmerworld? They do claim there was a collaboration between Tilton and bimmerworld.

To be honest I was very concerned about the drivability of the car before getting it installed. Before the Tilton I had never driven a car with lightweight clutch or flywheel. When I first drove the car after getting it installed I stalled three times in the parking lot but after that it was fairly natural. I may have a different opinion if I was driving it every day with stops on hills. It was like relearning how to drive manual all over again, at first you really need to focus on what you're doing but after driving a while muscle memory starts to kick in.

Raising the idle did help a bunch when trying to start from stopped position. However if you have a locked tune you'll have to go back to your tuner for that modification.

HPDE instructor drove my car and said he loved the clutch as well. Although he did stall it on the grid.

I would call the folks up at BW. When I was trying to decide between what clutch to get (after my OEM one exploded in track) they were very helpful and we ultimately landed on the Tilton one here:

https://www.bimmerworld.com/Drivelin...-Flywheel.html
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Old Sat, Mar-23-2019, 08:50:35 PM   #8
Tinnit
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Default Re: To Tilton or not to Tilton that is the question

That link you posted is exactly the clutch I have and I bought it on recommendation from Bimmerworld. For what it's worth, I had a friend build an e46 M3 race car recently and Bimmerworld recommended a different clutch to him. I don't know if BW no longer favors the Tilton or if different salesmen are free to recommend their own preference. probably the latter.

I do have a raised idle, although that was more to counteract the underpullies. The car would drain the battery if I left it idling. It didn't help or hurt the clutch performance. In fact, the underpullies probably affect the clutch behavior more than the idle did - the lighter the rotating assembly, the more sensitive it is to things that might stall it. Speed bumps, clutch engagement, inclines, etc.

I would have guessed that daily driving it would help the driveability of the clutch. The only time I slip it at all is when I'm leaving the paddock or loading it on the trailer. Otherwise, they're all very quick shifts. I would have thought driving it around on the street with no rev matching would round off the edges, so to speak. Then again, I also assumed 4 years of loading onto the trailer would do that, too, and it's just as much of a pain in the ass as it was when I bought it.

I don't mean to talk anyone out of buying one. Just relaying my own experience. Sometimes I buy stuff after others warn me not to and my experience turns out fine. Obviously the best way to get informed about this clutch would be to try before you buy. If anyone near Colorado wants to drive mine around the paddock, shoot me a message.
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Old Sat, Mar-23-2019, 09:40:19 PM   #9
eacmen
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Default Re: To Tilton or not to Tilton that is the question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tinnit View Post
That link you posted is exactly the clutch I have and I bought it on recommendation from Bimmerworld. For what it's worth, I had a friend build an e46 M3 race car recently and Bimmerworld recommended a different clutch to him. I don't know if BW no longer favors the Tilton or if different salesmen are free to recommend their own preference. probably the latter.



I do have a raised idle, although that was more to counteract the underpullies. The car would drain the battery if I left it idling. It didn't help or hurt the clutch performance. In fact, the underpullies probably affect the clutch behavior more than the idle did - the lighter the rotating assembly, the more sensitive it is to things that might stall it. Speed bumps, clutch engagement, inclines, etc.



I would have guessed that daily driving it would help the driveability of the clutch. The only time I slip it at all is when I'm leaving the paddock or loading it on the trailer. Otherwise, they're all very quick shifts. I would have thought driving it around on the street with no rev matching would round off the edges, so to speak. Then again, I also assumed 4 years of loading onto the trailer would do that, too, and it's just as much of a pain in the ass as it was when I bought it.



I don't mean to talk anyone out of buying one. Just relaying my own experience. Sometimes I buy stuff after others warn me not to and my experience turns out fine. Obviously the best way to get informed about this clutch would be to try before you buy. If anyone near Colorado wants to drive mine around the paddock, shoot me a message.


I really hope my opinion doesn't lead the op down the wrong path. The Tilton was recommended to me as the best option to still allow for some modulation. The shop that works on my car also ran Tilton in their e36 racecar. Just goes to show each car/driver can be quite different experience.

I see op is in NY I am in MD. My car is in the air right now and probably win be for at least a few weeks. Maybe someone closer with this clutch can let the op take it for a spin. My offer still stands once the wheels are back on the ground!
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2001 E46 M3, Tilton Triple Disc Clutch, JRZ RS2 (750/650), ST-40 332mm front BBK, BW TA16 Square 18x9.5, RE-71R 265/35R19, Redish Motorsport Plates, Mason X-Brace, Mason Front Strut Bar, RaceCapture Pro MK3 w/custom Raspberry Pi Dash.
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Old Sat, Mar-23-2019, 10:46:38 PM   #10
M3AN ONE
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Default Re: To Tilton or not to Tilton that is the question

I appreciate all you guys feedback pros and cons. I just bought it so hopefully I will be able to live with street driving as is I was only driving it on weekends because the suspension is too stiff for NY crappy roads. If it’s too bad to drive on the streets I will probably just make it a track only car. I already have a electric Winch so I don’t have to worry about loading it onto my trailer nor do I have to worry about driving my car to the track. Either way I have been warned/Informed which is all I can ever ask for. As long as I can get rid of that chatter!
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2003 M3 Track/HPDE
2018 Triumph 765 RS
2017 Ram 1500 Daily
94' Six Spd 800rwhp *Gone
2005 M3 convertible *Gone
1995 850 T5R *Gone
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