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M3 Track: Racing and DE Best mod for speed is learning to get the most out of what you currently have. Tracks and DE's is the place to start!


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Old Fri, Mar-23-2018, 04:57:08 PM   #1
Kwakjoe
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Default Kirk roll bar safe?

Looking into selling my interior for a decent price and investing the money into seats/harnesses/roll bar. I thought about doing custom work at TC, but a half cage tied into subframe is super expensive. So I thought about bolt in roll bars instead. First looked into Raven's, but they're about 1500 shipped to California which at that point I might as well get it done by TC.

Kirk seems really cheap for around 650 shipped to me, it seems like a no brainer and has really good reviews around here. However, whenever I mention it to any pro shop or even Raven, they say that's probably the worst thing you can do for your car. With such good reviews around here, I'm really tempted and cuts down a lot of the costs versus other options. I learn a lot from this forums so I thought it was worth a shot before I do anything. Selling my interior isn't 100% either
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Old Fri, Mar-23-2018, 05:29:42 PM   #2
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Default Re: Kirk roll bar safe?

Personally, i picked up a Raven half-cage, due to my current needs (Removable without leaving a trace) and the fact that i was near Canada at the time anyway.

That said, i would probably go with a Kirk one if i had to do it again.

Raven, although being bolt in, required some modifications (Bolt holes did not quite line up) and the cage seems to push to the drivers side more than the passenger side. Overall i'm happy with it, though.
The Kirk ones i've seen at the track did not appear to have that issue, and since you are installing it by drilling into sheet-metal, it's effectively "custom" mounted.

Now, for the safety aspect, both Kirk and Raven and such, will be a "stop gap" until you go full cage. Both will provide more protection on the track than having nothing at all, but neither will be as good as a full cage, naturally. The biggest argument for/against either is the way they are mounted. Some say the Raven is better since it ties into the factory spots, others say the Kirk is better since it should distribute the load better due to the way it is mounted.

A weld-in solution will be superior to both Kirk and Raven, but is no feasible for everyone. Additionally, weld in is a no turning back situation, another reason why i went with a bolt-in. Both the Kirk and the Raven, you can sell once you decide to go full-cage, recovering some of your investment.

Honestly, unless you know for certain that you are turning the car into track-only and commit to a full cage, the Kirk bar will be sufficient for HPDEs and basic trackdays. It's most definitely better than only adding a harness bar.

That's my view on it. Hopefully more can chime in, though!
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Old Fri, Mar-23-2018, 05:48:13 PM   #3
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Default Re: Kirk roll bar safe?

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Originally Posted by PenguinScotty View Post
Personally, i picked up a Raven half-cage, due to my current needs (Removable without leaving a trace) and the fact that i was near Canada at the time anyway.

That said, i would probably go with a Kirk one if i had to do it again.

Raven, although being bolt in, required some modifications (Bolt holes did not quite line up) and the cage seems to push to the drivers side more than the passenger side. Overall i'm happy with it, though.
The Kirk ones i've seen at the track did not appear to have that issue, and since you are installing it by drilling into sheet-metal, it's effectively "custom" mounted.

Now, for the safety aspect, both Kirk and Raven and such, will be a "stop gap" until you go full cage. Both will provide more protection on the track than having nothing at all, but neither will be as good as a full cage, naturally. The biggest argument for/against either is the way they are mounted. Some say the Raven is better since it ties into the factory spots, others say the Kirk is better since it should distribute the load better due to the way it is mounted.

A weld-in solution will be superior to both Kirk and Raven, but is no feasible for everyone. Additionally, weld in is a no turning back situation, another reason why i went with a bolt-in. Both the Kirk and the Raven, you can sell once you decide to go full-cage, recovering some of your investment.

Honestly, unless you know for certain that you are turning the car into track-only and commit to a full cage, the Kirk bar will be sufficient for HPDEs and basic trackdays. It's most definitely better than only adding a harness bar.

That's my view on it. Hopefully more can chime in, though!
Thanks for your input! The guys that runs Kirk, do they still have their interior in the rear? I'm just not sure if I want to part ways with this mint cinnamon just yet.
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Old Fri, Mar-23-2018, 06:40:23 PM   #4
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Default Re: Kirk roll bar safe?

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Thanks for your input! The guys that runs Kirk, do they still have their interior in the rear? I'm just not sure if I want to part ways with this mint cinnamon just yet.
Generally, no. At a minimum, with the Kirk, you will have to remove the side-bolster of the rear section (Kind of the wheel-arch) and will have to cut out a portion of the carpet behind the driver and passenger seat, to mount the bars to the floor.
The Raven will allow you to keep everything intact and installed.
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Old Fri, Mar-23-2018, 07:28:52 PM   #5
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Default Re: Kirk roll bar safe?

First, a weld in half cage is only a good idea if you know that you’ll never go to a full cage or remove it.

Otherwise, you either need to remove the roof, tear out and redo, or chance it getting a 360 weld around the top bar (probably not).

I think either bolt in option is fine. I would trust the Kirk more than the Raven...just an opinion.


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Old Fri, Mar-23-2018, 08:24:52 PM   #6
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Default Re: Kirk roll bar safe?

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Originally Posted by PenguinScotty View Post
Generally, no. At a minimum, with the Kirk, you will have to remove the side-bolster of the rear section (Kind of the wheel-arch) and will have to cut out a portion of the carpet behind the driver and passenger seat, to mount the bars to the floor.
The Raven will allow you to keep everything intact and installed.
I've heard of some people keeping the interior, but haven't been able to find pictures. I'm probably gonna have a shop install it for me. Anyone do this recently? Curious what how much it would cost for paint + installation.

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Originally Posted by bigjae1976 View Post
First, a weld in half cage is only a good idea if you know that you’ll never go to a full cage or remove it.

Otherwise, you either need to remove the roof, tear out and redo, or chance it getting a 360 weld around the top bar (probably not).

I think either bolt in option is fine. I would trust the Kirk more than the Raven...just an opinion.


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Yeah even with a half cage I was told you still probably want to remove the cartridge or get a cf skin.
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Old Fri, Mar-23-2018, 09:38:21 PM   #7
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Default Re: Kirk roll bar safe?

I'm leaning towards a Raven bar due to the fact that I'm not ready to tear up my interior.
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Old Fri, Mar-23-2018, 09:43:20 PM   #8
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Default Re: Kirk roll bar safe?

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I'm leaning towards a Raven bar due to the fact that I'm not ready to tear up my interior.
Yeah but that shipping/customs pricing kills you. I'm only 500~ away from getting a custom bar from a reputable shop at that point.
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Old Fri, Mar-23-2018, 10:07:24 PM   #9
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Default Re: Kirk roll bar safe?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kwakjoe View Post
I've heard of some people keeping the interior, but haven't been able to find pictures. I'm probably gonna have a shop install it for me. Anyone do this recently? Curious what how much it would cost for paint + installation.
With the Kirk bar, the only way to keep your interior in place, is to cut into it. If you hop on over to Vorshlags Kirk Bar Install and flip through the pictures, on page two, you can see that they had to cut into the side bolsters that cover the wheel well. The only option, if you want to keep your interior and not have to hack into anything, is the Raven bar right now.

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Originally Posted by Kwakjoe View Post
Yeah but that shipping/customs pricing kills you. I'm only 500~ away from getting a custom bar from a reputable shop at that point.
That was a big factor for me as well, but i was able to pick it up from Raven themselves, so it cost me 1k flat, before powdercoating.
The thing is, if you want a bolt in install without having to modify anything, the Raven is the way to go.
If you go Custom, you might as well do it proper and have them weld it in and tie the subframe in there, but that will make it close to irreversible at that point.

I've had the same thoughts as you, and in the end, went with the Raven, since i did not want to tear my interior apart just yet.
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Old Fri, Mar-23-2018, 10:13:58 PM   #10
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Default Re: Kirk roll bar safe?

Quote:
Originally Posted by PenguinScotty View Post
With the Kirk bar, the only way to keep your interior in place, is to cut into it. If you hop on over to Vorshlags Kirk Bar Install and flip through the pictures, on page two, you can see that they had to cut into the side bolsters that cover the wheel well. The only option, if you want to keep your interior and not have to hack into anything, is the Raven bar right now.



That was a big factor for me as well, but i was able to pick it up from Raven themselves, so it cost me 1k flat, before powdercoating.
The thing is, if you want a bolt in install without having to modify anything, the Raven is the way to go.
If you go Custom, you might as well do it proper and have them weld it in and tie the subframe in there, but that will make it close to irreversible at that point.

I've had the same thoughts as you, and in the end, went with the Raven, since i did not want to tear my interior apart just yet.
Thanks for this. Those pictures were exactly what I was looking for. I think I'm gonna pull the trigger on a Kirk bar, someone local to me is gonna sell theirs pretty soon for a good price. I'll probably sell my interior and maybe just buy rear seats because I don't want to fab a panel for it and just not run the side bolsters.
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