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E46 M3 (2001-2006) Engine: S54 - Max Hp: 333 hp at 7,900 rpm / 262 lb/ft at 4,900 rpm
Total Produced: 45,000+ - Years Produced: 2001 to 2006.


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Old Tue, Mar-22-2016, 09:07:32 PM   #31
VinceSE2
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Default Re: Vince RACP reinforcement/load relief- Install w/o welding and completely drop...

Quote:
Originally Posted by WOLFN8TR View Post
Wow very nice work! Question when using this kit does it matter if you have sub frame cracks already or is this just to prevent them from occurring? The last time I checked there weren't any I could see. Thanks...

Please find mote details here: http://www.m3forum.net/m3forum/showt...p?p=1067164063

In summary.

My kit relieves the RACP from concentrated stress and fatigue. So it prevents (or at least radically reduces the risk of) cracks from occurring and/or reoccurring. Any existing cracks need to be addressed during the installation. Always by stop drilling the crack, and then either by welding or adding plates (welded or epoxied/riveted) depending on the size and severity of the cracks.

There is absolutely no reason to wait,
It would be very wise to address the RACP before you start finding/seeing cracks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Speed Monkey View Post
Vince, could you feel any chassis stiffening effect from having this RACP reinforcement bar installed? If so, please elaborate. Thanks.

Honestly IDK. I did several other mods while doing my own RACP. Poly subframe bushings, Bimmerworld bearing style RTAB's (love them!), Bimmerworld FCAB's (love these too!) stiffer rear springs to name a few.
And even if I hadn't done those I doubt I would be able to tell.

But as you mention chassis stiffening, I'm planning an add on brace that can be installed/removed within 5-10 minutes. The target audience will be folks like myself who desire practicality during every day driving, and do some prepping prior to track days.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AWSME46 View Post
This is awesome! Will definitely buy after mason xbrace.

Thanks for you positive feedback!

Quote:
Originally Posted by idntknow2005 View Post
Do you have a price in mind? I'm very interested

About $650 + shipping (which is about $120 to the US)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Smitsky089 View Post
I was under the impression that this was an alternate solution to the mason xbar, so doing both would be overkill, no?

That is correct regarding the rear bar if my kit. But those who are not concerned about luggage space and practicality, and want the Mason brace due to the chassis stiffening, could go with only the front part of my kit.

For those who want both, please see my plans for a brace in a response further up in this post.


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Old Tue, Mar-22-2016, 10:26:17 PM   #32
terraphantm
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Default Re: Vince RACP reinforcement/load relief- Install w/o welding and completely drop...

Would this kit also work on sedans?
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Old Tue, Mar-22-2016, 10:31:34 PM   #33
VinceSE2
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Default Re: Vince RACP reinforcement/load relief- Install w/o welding and completely drop...

Quote:
Originally Posted by terraphantm View Post
Would this kit also work on sedans?

I believe so. As far as I know the coupe and sedan share the same platform (can't recall what the bottom part of the chassis is in English).
But I have not tested this, or even compared the a sedan to a coupe.

Does anyone else know?


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Old Tue, Mar-22-2016, 10:42:28 PM   #34
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Default Re: Vince RACP reinforcement/load relief- Install w/o welding and completely drop...

you da man Vince

Quote:
Originally Posted by SocratesRising View Post
DIY friendly. ✔
No welding. ✔
Complete kit. ✔
Subscribed. ✔
Procrastination finally pays off. ✔ ✔ ✔ ✔ ✔

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Old Tue, Mar-22-2016, 11:17:56 PM   #35
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Default Re: Vince RACP reinforcement/load relief- Install w/o welding and completely drop...

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Originally Posted by mrfuzzybagels View Post
I foresee this rendering all previous subframe reinforcement methods obsolete.
Yes! We're seeing the light here... We need a sticky imo, so people can find the latest advancements and stop asking if foam will work.
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Old Tue, Mar-22-2016, 11:32:01 PM   #36
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Default Re: Vince RACP reinforcement/load relief- Install w/o welding and completely drop...

pm sent
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Old Wed, Mar-23-2016, 02:55:48 AM   #37
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Default Re: Vince RACP reinforcement/load relief- Install w/o welding and completely drop...

You're the man, Vince! I thought you went above and beyond by providing your initial observations... then you built and sold the weld in kit (which I have and is great), and now you have made a kit that pretty much anyone could install. Can't believe how much you've contributed to the forum over the past year or so. Thanks again for all that you do! People like you are what make the E46 M3 and this forum so great.
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Old Wed, Mar-23-2016, 11:06:57 AM   #38
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Default Re: Vince RACP reinforcement/load relief- Install w/o welding and completely drop...

Quote:
Originally Posted by OldFanatic View Post
pm sent

I've responded to your first PM, but have not received anything after that. Please hit me again if your still interested.


I've started a couple of list in post #2.



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Old Wed, Mar-23-2016, 12:45:03 PM   #39
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Default Re: Vince RACP reinforcement/load relief- Install w/o welding and completely drop...

Vince:

Do you have specs on the blind rivets you're using? Are they typical off-the-shelf from the hardware store?

So please accept this as professional feedback. IMHO, I don't think this current set-up lends itself to a joint equal, or close to the shear strength when compared to the welded joint it's designed to replace.

The main issue I'm concerned with is the spacing of the rivets. Blind rivets typically aren't as strong as solid shanks, unless you're using specialty one's like hi-shear Cherrymax's or Cherrylock's etc. Because of this, spacing is very critical in order to achieve a structure to sub-structure joint that will offer close to the strength of a welded joint.

Industry standard riveting practice for lap joints are as follows:
Edge Spacing: Distance from the edge of the material to the center of the nearest rivet hole; Typically the minimum distance is 2-times (2D) the diameter of the rivet shank.

Rivet Length: The length of the shank extending past the material should be no more than 1.5 times (1.5D) the diameter of the shank. The thickness of both materials being riveted is your grip length.

Spacing: The distance between the centers of the rivet holes should be no more than 6-times (6D) the diameter of the shank.

Mathematically figuring all this out is pretty simple:
example: row of rivets along a 6-inch side, using 1/8-inch (0.125") shank rivets
  • Distance between first and last rivet:
    6 - ((2D - 2D) * 0.125)
    6 - (4 * 0.125)
    5.5-inch
  • 6D Rivet spacing (6 * 0.125 = 0.75):
    5.5 / 0.75 = 7.333 (round down to 7)
    5.5 / 7
    0.7857-inch

A few other suggestions would be to keep hole diameters very tight. In other words you don't want the rivet just falling into the hole, but minimal drag requiring you to push the rivet into the hole.

Ensure that the two panels are held together as tight as possible before setting the rivet. Typically we use cleco clamps for this, but I understand the investment in such tools is beyond the scope of your alternate installation method. Another way of doing this is using self-tap sheet metal screws to initially position & clamp the work piece. Then, systematically remove the screws one at a time, drill the hole, and set your rivet.


I also suggest performing a "wet installation" of the rivets. Simply coat the rivet shank and underneath the head with an RTV type sealant, then install. This will totally seal the hole from creeping and dissimilar metal corrosion.

Again, I'm not trying to be Debby Downer or anything, and what you're offering the boards is absolutely great!! I just wanted to offer a bit of industry experience to improve your product, and to reduce a bit of your liability should the installation be performed by someone with very little knowledge of primary & secondary structure jointing.
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Old Wed, Mar-23-2016, 01:27:54 PM   #40
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Default Re: Vince RACP reinforcement/load relief- Install w/o welding and completely drop...

Oh Man!
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Discussing Vince RACP reinforcement/load relief- Install w/o welding and completely drop... in the E46 M3 (2001-2006) Forum - Engine: S54 - Max Hp: 333 hp at 7,900 rpm / 262 lb/ft at 4,900 rpm
Total Produced: 45,000+ - Years Produced: 2001 to 2006. at BMW M3 Forum.com (E30 M3 | E36 M3 | E46 M3 | E92 M3 | F80/X)