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E46 M3 (2001-2006) Engine: S54 - Max Hp: 333 hp at 7,900 rpm / 262 lb/ft at 4,900 rpm
Total Produced: 45,000+ - Years Produced: 2001 to 2006.


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Old Mon, Jul-31-2017, 03:14:49 PM   #11
ThunderMoose
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Default Re: Getting Gas with the Engine Running

It's not something I would do.


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Old Mon, Jul-31-2017, 03:42:45 PM   #12
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Default Re: Getting Gas with the Engine Running

That's interesting about 'never idle'. Logic tells me that the lower [Fewer] the RPMs when cold, the less friction will take place. But I'm assuming you guys are referring to something in the top half of the engine? (carbon buildup from a colder ignition, or slower flow and siphon from the exhaust? I'd read the 'just start driving' advice in the manual, but assumed they were just being ----s catering to the 'your car will get stolen and you'll 'have too much fun' police.)

So strong is my aversion to unnecessary lower-half friction, that I've even fantasized about having a system like a very slow starter that would allow me to roll the engine very slowly for 10 or 12 cranks at, say, 1 revolution per 2 seconds.

Just like an old airplane; turning the prop without electricity on to work oil up into the engine.

ANYWAY, I forget that it's all a moot point. If my water / block temp is up to 180 when I pull into the gas station, but oil is sub 120, if I shut the engine down, that oil is going to have warmed up 50+ degrees in the 4 minutes is takes me to get gas.

That's very convenient, and was especially this morning at 5am, when I made an incredible run 68 miles away and back. Never before have I been able to cruise at as high speeds as I did this morning, for such a sustained amount of time. There was simply nobody for a long time.

My God: what a car.
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Old Mon, Jul-31-2017, 03:51:28 PM   #13
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Default Re: Getting Gas with the Engine Running

Whats the issue with turning the car off and turning it back on when cold?
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Old Mon, Jul-31-2017, 03:53:53 PM   #14
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Default Re: Getting Gas with the Engine Running

I do it sometimes, ground your self first.
I do not do it on an empty tank.
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Old Mon, Jul-31-2017, 03:56:39 PM   #15
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Default Re: Getting Gas with the Engine Running

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDoogan View Post
That's interesting about 'never idle'. Logic tells me that the lower [Fewer] the RPMs when cold, the less friction will take place. But I'm assuming you guys are referring to something in the top half of the engine? (carbon buildup from a colder ignition, or slower flow and siphon from the exhaust? I'd read the 'just start driving' advice in the manual, but assumed they were just being ----s catering to the 'your car will get stolen and you'll 'have too much fun' police.)

So strong is my aversion to unnecessary lower-half friction, that I've even fantasized about having a system like a very slow starter that would allow me to roll the engine very slowly for 10 or 12 cranks at, say, 1 revolution per 2 seconds.

Just like an old airplane; turning the prop without electricity on to work oil up into the engine.

ANYWAY, I forget that it's all a moot point. If my water / block temp is up to 180 when I pull into the gas station, but oil is sub 120, if I shut the engine down, that oil is going to have warmed up 50+ degrees in the 4 minutes is takes me to get gas.

That's very convenient, and was especially this morning at 5am, when I made an incredible run 68 miles away and back. Never before have I been able to cruise at as high speeds as I did this morning, for such a sustained amount of time. There was simply nobody for a long time.

My God: what a car.
Different parts expand as they warm up at different rates. The parts are designed to be correctly sized, and fluids are speced to be at the correct viscosity, when at operating temperature. Warming up at idle makes it take longer to warm up. The longer it's running cold, the more wear is occurring.

The owners manual for the car even specifies that you should not let it warm up at idle.
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Old Mon, Jul-31-2017, 03:57:03 PM   #16
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Default Re: Getting Gas with the Engine Running

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Originally Posted by Sandeep1212 View Post
Whats the issue with tuening the car off and turning it back on when cold?
start up is when there is the least amount of oil in bearings and moving parts.
When cold... oil is not flowing as smoother then warmer oil because it is thicker
Over a long period of time, parts will start to wear down.
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Old Mon, Jul-31-2017, 03:57:57 PM   #17
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Default Re: Getting Gas with the Engine Running

What is this "warm up" period you all speak of?

Do your cars not just turn on and hit operating temp in the blink of an eye up there in the great white north?
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Old Mon, Jul-31-2017, 04:00:17 PM   #18
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Default Re: Getting Gas with the Engine Running

Quote:
Originally Posted by stack View Post
start up is when there is the least amount of oil in bearings and moving parts.
When cold... oil is not flowing as smoother then warmer oil because it is thicker
Over a long period of time, parts will start to wear down.
I know, I mean per OPs question of leaving the car running.

So whats worse about turning a car on then off then on vs left running. Both situation you have cold oil amd lubed bearing at that point.

Unless you're saying that they loose the oil that quickly?
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Old Mon, Jul-31-2017, 04:01:51 PM   #19
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Default Re: Getting Gas with the Engine Running

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Originally Posted by Obioban View Post
Different parts expand as they warm up at different rates. The parts are designed to be correctly sized, and fluids are speced to be at the correct viscosity, when at operating temperature. Warming up at idle makes it take longer to warm up. The longer it's running cold, the more wear is occurring.

The owners manual for the car even specifies that you should not let it warm up at idle.
That makes sense - okay, logic absorbed. Here again the board of knowledge here has helped to absolve me from guilt that was probably incorrectly ingrained in my redneck childhood, much like the incorrect adage that centerfire pistols and rifles shouldn't be dry-fired.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave B View Post
What is this "warm up" period you all speak of?

Do your cars not just turn on and hit operating temp in the blink of an eye up there in the great white north?

Haha - no sir, not like Miami. This morning, it was 52 degrees when I woke up
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Old Mon, Jul-31-2017, 04:38:48 PM   #20
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Default Re: Getting Gas with the Engine Running

I'm not sure of 01-06 OBD regulations, but any car built today would throw a DTC for "Gross Evap Leak" on second ignition cycle. I suppose if it's during warmup and you never shut the car off, this probably won't store. This DTC would not cause any change in performance.

It's not a smart move as far as safety is concerned. Static electricity, heat from the exhaust and source of fuel isn't a great combo.
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Discussing Getting Gas with the Engine Running in the E46 M3 (2001-2006) Forum - Engine: S54 - Max Hp: 333 hp at 7,900 rpm / 262 lb/ft at 4,900 rpm
Total Produced: 45,000+ - Years Produced: 2001 to 2006. at BMW M3 Forum.com (E30 M3 | E36 M3 | E46 M3 | E92 M3 | F80/X)