BMW M3 Forum
BMW M3 Forum BMW M3 Gallery BMW M3 Reviews BMW M3 Social Groups BMW M3 Chat M3Forum Sponsors >>
Loading


Mobile M3forum
Go Back   BMW M3 Forum.com (E30 M3 | E36 M3 | E46 M3 | E92 M3 | F80/X) > BMW M3 Discussions > E46 M3 (2001-2006)
Tire Rack Buy Winter Tires Now!
Not a member? Register Now!
Register Gallery All Albums Garage Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Calendar FAQ

E46 M3 (2001-2006) Engine: S54 - Max Hp: 333 hp at 7,900 rpm / 262 lb/ft at 4,900 rpm
Total Produced: 45,000+ - Years Produced: 2001 to 2006.


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old Wed, Sep-19-2018, 02:29:57 AM   #21
bigjae1976
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 6,781
In the garage:
Reputation: 0 bigjae1976 is on a distinguished road
Location: Wichita

United States




Default Re: Mk20 “ice mode” on track

Quote:
Originally Posted by CrookedCommie View Post
Oh great, so my plan on dropping $$$$ for the AP kit still won't fix the brakes? I love this car



I'm running 700/800 spring rate... so is it a shock thing? Do I need to turn up compression or rebound?

I have an MK60 system and I get the hard pedal thing but I know it’s saving me $$$ in tires. Never really had an issue. Maybe just do an MK60 swap?



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
__________________
2013 F30 328i - Melbourne Red
2011 E90 M3 - Monte Carlo Blue
2004 E46 M3 - Imola Red
Jump to top bigjae1976 is online now   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Register now and remove these ads
Old Wed, Sep-19-2018, 02:40:26 AM   #22
CrookedCommie
Captain Slow
 
CrookedCommie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 1,427
In the garage:
Reputation: 0 CrookedCommie is on a distinguished road
Location: Cincinnati

Bulgaria




Default Re: Mk20 “ice mode” on track

I can spend another $1000+ on a MK60 swap and who knows how much labor, but that just doesn't seem right... I knew I should have just gotten a 996GT3 to begin with
Jump to top CrookedCommie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Wed, Sep-19-2018, 03:11:51 AM   #23
Apex_3472
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 403
In the garage:
Reputation: 0 Apex_3472 is on a distinguished road

United States




Default Re: Mk20 “ice mode” on track

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigjae1976 View Post
I have an MK60 system and I get the hard pedal thing but I know it’s saving me $$$ in tires. Never really had an issue. Maybe just do an MK60 swap?



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Once again the biggest point of emphasis is that this hard pedal sensation is the ABS working incorrectly and is absolutely an unsafe thing to have happen. Essentially the braking system is working at 10% of its normal capacity, where normally when ABS is engaged it still functions somewhere 70-80% of capacity.

I'm not convinced that with slicks the car would be capable of just locking the wheels at will, I believe it would take some very rough inputs.
__________________
oi64.tinycom/j9rkb4.jpgpic.
Jump to top Apex_3472 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old Wed, Sep-19-2018, 03:13:08 AM   #24
CrookedCommie
Captain Slow
 
CrookedCommie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 1,427
In the garage:
Reputation: 0 CrookedCommie is on a distinguished road
Location: Cincinnati

Bulgaria




Default Re: Mk20 “ice mode” on track

So do you think we can run no ABS on the Pirellis? Is it possible to just pull the fuse?
Jump to top CrookedCommie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Wed, Sep-19-2018, 03:17:08 AM   #25
Apex_3472
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 403
In the garage:
Reputation: 0 Apex_3472 is on a distinguished road

United States




Default Re: Mk20 “ice mode” on track

Quote:
Originally Posted by CrookedCommie View Post
Oh great, so my plan on dropping $$$$ for the AP kit still won't fix the brakes? I love this car



I'm running 700/800 spring rate... so is it a shock thing? Do I need to turn up compression or rebound?
Yes, the transfer feeling would be a shock thing. Its hard to say without driving the car but if you feel the weight of the car being transferred rapidly, or the nose dives quickly and there is no smooth transition a shock setting could be your issue. Not sure of your damper package but in racing we would either increase front low speed compression stiffness or increase rear low speed rebound stiffness. Either of these changes will make that transition longer - the goal being to keep the rear planted longer during the initial heavy brake phase.
__________________
oi64.tinycom/j9rkb4.jpgpic.
Jump to top Apex_3472 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old Wed, Sep-19-2018, 03:19:16 AM   #26
Apex_3472
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 403
In the garage:
Reputation: 0 Apex_3472 is on a distinguished road

United States




Default Re: Mk20 “ice mode” on track

Quote:
Originally Posted by CrookedCommie View Post
So do you think we can run no ABS on the Pirellis? Is it possible to just pull the fuse?
That's my thought - I wish I had a track day soon to give it a shot. It absolutely will be what I do next track day. "Ice mode" scared the sh** out of me and I'd rather lock all 4 wheels in a smoky slide of glory than get a hard pedal and run into the poor soul in front of me or worse.
__________________
oi64.tinycom/j9rkb4.jpgpic.
Jump to top Apex_3472 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old Wed, Sep-19-2018, 03:28:24 AM   #27
CrookedCommie
Captain Slow
 
CrookedCommie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 1,427
In the garage:
Reputation: 0 CrookedCommie is on a distinguished road
Location: Cincinnati

Bulgaria




Default Re: Mk20 “ice mode” on track

Thanks Scott, I am going to test out DTC-70 pads on stock calipers next, but I might try to disable the abs and see what changes. I'm running a TC Kline D/A setup, and I haven't changed the compression or rebound since I set them up for Nitto NT-01's, so I might need to crank both up.

At Mid-Ohio, if I applied any medium brake pressure into T2, the car would just get super squirmy into turn in. I could hear the driver front locking and releasing, but with barely any brake pressure applied. The back straight brake zone was a "pray it stops" every time.

Jump to top CrookedCommie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Wed, Sep-19-2018, 03:44:14 AM   #28
Apex_3472
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 403
In the garage:
Reputation: 0 Apex_3472 is on a distinguished road

United States




Default Re: Mk20 “ice mode” on track

Quote:
Originally Posted by CrookedCommie View Post
Thanks Scott, I am going to test out DTC-70 pads on stock calipers next, but I might try to disable the abs and see what changes. I'm running a TC Kline D/A setup, and I haven't changed the compression or rebound since I set them up for Nitto NT-01's, so I might need to crank both up.

At Mid-Ohio, if I applied any medium brake pressure into T2, the car would just get super squirmy into turn in. I could hear the driver front locking and releasing, but with barely any brake pressure applied. The back straight brake zone was a "pray it stops" every time.

MORPCA Mid Ohio Sept 18 on Pirellis - YouTube
Nice driving! Always exciting to break into the next second bracket. Seeing the lap time cracked me up because the last time I was there in anything besides a pro car was this vintage corvette. Same config I was at about a 1:38. We're on treaded bias ply tires and the brakes aren't anything to write home about, but something about the 550+ hp probably makes up a lot of difference!!


Back on topic - crank up both of those settings and play around with it. Try increasing front bump more than rebound and rear rebound more than bump - but up on every setting. Also it's worth the disclaimer of work back up to it when you turn abs off. I think it'll be better but I don't want you finding out (in a big way) that I was wrong!
__________________
oi64.tinycom/j9rkb4.jpgpic.
Jump to top Apex_3472 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old Wed, Sep-19-2018, 05:50:01 AM   #29
bigjae1976
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 6,781
In the garage:
Reputation: 0 bigjae1976 is on a distinguished road
Location: Wichita

United States




Default Re: Mk20 “ice mode” on track

Quote:
Originally Posted by CrookedCommie View Post
So do you think we can run no ABS on the Pirellis? Is it possible to just pull the fuse?

I think all you need to do I disconnect one wheel speed sensor.

I forgot to plug one in and had no ABS. That was an interesting experience. Lol


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
__________________
2013 F30 328i - Melbourne Red
2011 E90 M3 - Monte Carlo Blue
2004 E46 M3 - Imola Red
Jump to top bigjae1976 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old Wed, Sep-19-2018, 12:47:49 PM   #30
Obioban
Moderator
 
Obioban's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 36,577
In the garage:
Reputation: 54 Obioban has a spectacular aura about
Location: SE PA

United States




Default Re: Mk20 “ice mode” on track

I don't have a MK20 car, so no first hand experience with this, but has anyone tried fiddling with the ABS values in NCS Expert to see if it helps?

Or, I forget who, but someone sells a MK20 tune that supposedly makes it more MK60 like in its intervention thresholds.
__________________

Current Cars: 2005 IR/IR M3, 2001 LMB/blk M5, 03 530i, 04 M3 wagon, and some boring stuff
Past cars: 04 M3, 96 M3, S50B32 e36 M3 CM race car
Jump to top Obioban is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT. The time now is 05:41:23 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
M3Forum.com and M3forum.net is in no way sponsored, endorsed or affiliated by or with BMW NA / BMW AG or any of it's subsidiaries or vendors.
BMW and M3 (E90 M3 | E92 M3 | E93 M3 | E46 M3 | E36 M3 | E30 M3) are registered trademarks of BMW AG.
M3Forum Terms of Service
Copyright ©1999-2017 M3Forum.com
Discussing Mk20 “ice mode” on track in the E46 M3 (2001-2006) Forum - Engine: S54 - Max Hp: 333 hp at 7,900 rpm / 262 lb/ft at 4,900 rpm
Total Produced: 45,000+ - Years Produced: 2001 to 2006. at BMW M3 Forum.com (E30 M3 | E36 M3 | E46 M3 | E92 M3 | F80/X)