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E46 M3 (2001-2006) Engine: S54 - Max Hp: 333 hp at 7,900 rpm / 262 lb/ft at 4,900 rpm
Total Produced: 45,000+ - Years Produced: 2001 to 2006.


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Old Tue, Jul-16-2013, 04:47:58 AM   #31
macming
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Default Re: EML light then DSC light...

You definitely have an issue. I say you should try out the TPS sensors, but first I'd get the code read just so you know what is happening.


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Originally Posted by HammerOfTheGods View Post
Thanks - I should already have a new fuel filter, as I had an Inspection 2 last week. And I'm hoping the first TPS will work, from what I've read here. However, things have now got worse:

Last night, I took it out, and after a mile or so it did it again, so I pulled over, switched off, waited 30 seconds, fired it up...and this time, it was firing erratically, idling at 1.5k, spluttering/missing when I revved it...also, the yellow rev-guidance lights came on, down to 4.5k revs...and the brake pedal was totally stiff, so when I edged forwards a little, I couldn't operate the pedal & had to use the hand brake. Hmmm. And this carried on for 5 or 6 re-starts, but after about 5 mins contemplating calling breakdown recovery, it fired up normally, brakes & rev lights fine. After that, it was fine for about 5 miles, then it did the EML power-loss thing again once on the way home, fired up ok after 10 secs, got home ok & kicked the cat, lol.

Any ideas, please? Could the more worrying new problem also be caused by TPS issues...?
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Old Tue, Jul-16-2013, 05:30:29 PM   #32
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Default Re: EML light then DSC light...

Okay, it certainly sounds like have a TPS issue but you need to get the codes pulled. I have dealt with all of them (TPSs) at some point or another. I would begin replacing the TPS sensor by the oil filter, then under the manifold then on to the gas pedal if you are still having issues.

If you need to use the car as your DD unplug the battery overnight and let the system reset and you will have more time between the flair ups you are having. This is only temporary fix however...Good news is a TPS is not going to hurt your engine physically, it will make it run like crap...

A possibility is the wires are resting under the manifold on a HOT piece of metal...Look for burned plastic on the black cover of the wiring that plugs into the TPS itself. This can cause a TPS error by shorting out the wires because of the extreme heat by the VANOS and oil filter. If you see this, move the wires around and reroute them away from the contact point they were resting on.

If the TPS by the oil filter does not solve the issue then you will need to move to the next one which is under the manifold: Here is the starter DIY, this is the best way to remove the manifold to reach the TPS down there. It is attached to the throttle actuator.

Starter DIY : http://www.m3forum.net/m3forum/showthread.php?t=310634

If that does not solve your problem then you could potentially have the issue I did. My throttle body actuator/motor was on it's way out. This is slightly more uncommon and is also pretty expensive, just for the part unfortunately. I sourced a used one since the problem is not prevalent really...It ran me 90 from a buddy and from a few forums members they around 150 w/ some wiggle room.

If the problem still persists then I would look into the gas pedal. Very easy swap, just don't break the white clips on it!
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1995 Hellrot M3- H&R Sports, JB Racing 10lb flywheel, Dinan exhaust
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Old Tue, Jul-16-2013, 07:50:22 PM   #33
HammerOfTheGods
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Default Re: EML light then DSC light...

^ Thanks very much.

Fortunately, all of this should be covered by my 3rd party warranty (15 months, yay), so I'll be getting my non-BMW garage to do whatever needs doing.

The one thing that concerns me is we're going on holiday this weekend (250 miles away), and although it's possible I might get it all sorted in time, I might not. Sooo....given that (so far) this has only happened from near-cold & always seems to resolve itself quickly, and if my 200-mile commute tomorrow goes well, do you think it would be unnecessarily cautious if I took my 318 on holiday instead? (I really don't want to, for obvious reasons!) i.e. is this the kind of issue that could get a lot worse very quickly, so that we might get stranded...and could it even have a domino effect on other aspects of the car?

And could the brake pedal issue happen while we're moving? Being the positive chap that I am, I speculated at the time that it might have been some kind of built-in protective response by the car, i.e. 'Don't try to drive me right now...'...but if I'm wrong, I don't fancy losing my brakes at high speed...or any speed, for that matter, lol.

Last edited by HammerOfTheGods; Tue, Jul-16-2013 at 07:54:34 PM.
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Old Tue, Jul-16-2013, 08:09:20 PM   #34
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Default Re: EML light then DSC light...

Quote:
Originally Posted by HammerOfTheGods View Post
^ Thanks very much.

Fortunately, all of this should be covered by my 3rd party warranty (15 months, yay), so I'll be getting my non-BMW garage to do whatever needs doing.

The one thing that concerns me is we're going on holiday this weekend (250 miles away), and although it's possible I might get it all sorted in time, I might not. Sooo....given that (so far) this has only happened from near-cold & always seems to resolve itself quickly, and if my 200-mile commute tomorrow goes well, do you think it would be unnecessarily cautious if I took my 318 on holiday instead? (I really don't want to, for obvious reasons!) i.e. is this the kind of issue that could get a lot worse very quickly, so that we might get stranded...and could it even have a domino effect on other aspects of the car?

And could the brake pedal issue happen while we're moving? Being the positive chap that I am, I speculated at the time that it might have been some kind of built-in protective response by the car, i.e. 'Don't try to drive me right now...'...but if I'm wrong, I don't fancy losing my brakes at high speed...or any speed, for that matter, lol.
If it truly is a TPS issue then no there should not be any long term effects. Just the annoying limp mode. I would not take anyone in the car for an extended amount of time like what you are talking about doing. I have almost wrecked due to hitting limp mode in the left lane. It was kind of like playing frogger with an M3...not fun...

I would try and sort the issue before the trip! MSG me if you have any questions about the whole thing..

-Drew
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1999 Cosmos M3- Koni/Eibach, M50, TRM tune, ASC delete, PowerFlex bushings everywhere, SS lines, much more
1995 Hellrot M3- H&R Sports, JB Racing 10lb flywheel, Dinan exhaust
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Old Fri, Aug-02-2013, 09:44:07 AM   #35
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Default Re: EML light then DSC light...

Update: I got the easy one replaced before our trip, but it didn't fix it, so I took the car anyway. It was fine for the first 150 miles, then when we came off the motorway, it did it twice in a qtr of a mile....and then was fine again for the final 50 miles. It did it once while we were there, and then it was fine the whole way home.

I've now notified the warranty company & will be getting the rest done asap. However, when it happened 4 times in the space of 10 miles yesterday, I figured out a trick: instead of pulling over & re-starting, I smacked it into neutral while I was still rolling (at around 50mph), turned off, restarted...and it was fine! I did that twice, worked both times. And fortunately, after re-starting & sticking it back into gear, it seemed to put it back into a suitable gear, i.e. not 1st gear.

As a quick fix, which seems safer than crawling along to a suitable stopping place, can anyone see any problem in doing this?
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Old Sun, Nov-24-2013, 09:30:37 AM   #36
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Default Re: EML light then DSC light...

Re-update:

Ended up getting all 3 replaced. 1st problem: total cost of around 600 not covered by my warranty. 2nd probelm: didn't fix it.

So....new error code, pointing at actuator. Eww. Instead of going back to my usual local garage (not their fault, but thought I'd try an 'expert'), I took it down to Tim Spicer (Duxford, Cambs, England), who had come recommended. Ex-BMW, 20+ yrs experience. His diagnostics confirmed actuator, and because I'd already seen prices quoted here, it didn't come as a huge shock when he said the part alone would be 450. So I left it with him, and he called later to say he'd fitted it, but it had made the problem WORSE

Either the diagnostics or BMW themselves then suggested that the new part might be incompatible with the old software...so he patched it and, at last, it was fixed!! And that was a couple of months ago, and 3k miles later, no probs at all. Phew...as I clocked up each 100 miles, I almost wept with joy on several occasions as it became increasingly apparent that the problem had gone.

What bugs me is whether it was a software issue all along. Bearing in mind the car had stood for 7 years, I guess anything could've got out of synch...and although a mechanic can only fix what the diagnostics shows, I'm pretty pissed off with BMW because some or all of the parts I replaced might have been absolutely fine all along. Still, the total repair costs were around 1500, which when added to the purchase price of 13k still means I got a 15k mileage M3 for under 15k. Plus, I now have a totally awesome expert, with very reasonable rates, for anything else that I might need. Yay!

Thanks to all who posted with advice
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Old Sun, Nov-24-2013, 11:00:33 AM   #37
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Default Re: EML light then DSC light...

I think too often people, perhaps out of tradition, immediately start wrenching the hardware and replacing parts, and I think consequently many on here get too far in the grease and then can't back out, ending up spending a fortune in money, time and frustration.

I would always exhaust the software/firmware route before looking at the mechanics. From the time I got my car I got my dealer to do the latest software and firmware updates, and when there was a problem they have run the appropriate diagnostic software. The only part they have replaced is the relay, but they also follow up any SMG glitch with a recalibration. You can replace all the parts, but if the firmware isn't updated to the last version and a recalibration isn't run, you will still have problems, or at least less than optimal operation.
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Old Sun, Nov-24-2013, 11:39:05 AM   #38
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Default Re: EML light then DSC light...

Quote:
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I would always exhaust the software/firmware route before looking at the mechanics.
That's absolutely what I'll be doing from now on. Lesson learned!
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Discussing EML light then DSC light... in the E46 M3 (2001-2006) Forum - Engine: S54 - Max Hp: 333 hp at 7,900 rpm / 262 lb/ft at 4,900 rpm
Total Produced: 45,000+ - Years Produced: 2001 to 2006. at BMW M3 Forum.com (E30 M3 | E36 M3 | E46 M3 | E92 M3 | F80/X)