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E46 M3 (2001-2006) Engine: S54 - Max Hp: 333 hp at 7,900 rpm / 262 lb/ft at 4,900 rpm
Total Produced: 45,000+ - Years Produced: 2001 to 2006.


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Old Fri, Jul-28-2017, 01:27:03 PM   #51
gojcaj
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Default Re: Help me bring a new exhaust to market

I didn't see cats mentioned, but I do know a lot of people here prefer to have them. Not sure who makes the best cats these days, but I know many of the high HP SRT's run 'Green Cats'.

The resonators could probably be in the section 1 or the section 2.

Our cars don't have a ton of room for Helmholtz resonators. The frequency required / pipe length is fairly long. I wish I could experiment with this!

You do risk really narrowing the market with the section 1 choice. To elaborate, most / all of the high HP builds use SS Stepped / ARH headers.

The SS Sec 1 tapers down from 2.5" to 2.36" OD. This allows compatibility with OEM and the entire market's Sec 2's.

The SS V2 Stepped Headers already taper down to 2.36" OD to allow OEM section 1 sizing. I'm not sure where the taper happens, but since you're already at the smaller diameter, this market may not benefit from going back to 2.5". This is only an assumption.

So it sounds like you'd need 2 section 1's. Might be cost prohibitive
-A 2.5" to 2.5"
-A 2.36 to 2.5"

The supercharged guys would probably benefit regardless of what headers they are running.

Why would many of you pass on a crossover? It's well documented that an H or X yields greater power and torque, especially when you're already in a higher power build. Some cars even use 2 for some reason.
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Old Fri, Jul-28-2017, 02:02:27 PM   #52
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Default Re: Help me bring a new exhaust to market

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian N View Post
I think you most of it! Maybe incoroaprte what Hassan said about minimal bends for the muffler. Maybe something similar to the SS Race design and the one Hassan made custom for himself.
He has no idea what he's talking about and that make literally no difference.
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Old Fri, Jul-28-2017, 02:09:13 PM   #53
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Default Re: Help me bring a new exhaust to market

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Originally Posted by gojcaj View Post
The SS Sec 1 tapers down from 2.5" to 2.36" OD. This allows compatibility with OEM and the entire market's Sec 2's.
Are you sure about that (tapering down)? I don't remember seeing it when under my car.

It's not apparent looking at a picture of it, either:



The brief front wide bit is for the slip joint with the V1 headers.
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Old Fri, Jul-28-2017, 02:17:51 PM   #54
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Default Re: Help me bring a new exhaust to market

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Originally Posted by Obioban View Post
Are you sure about that (tapering down)? I don't remember seeing it when under my car.

It's not apparent looking at a picture of it, either:

The brief front wide bit is for the slip joint with the V1 headers.
I could very well be wrong, but how else would the larger section 1 fit the smaller section 2? But you're right, it doesn't look like it tapers. Now I'm confused. I have a piece of my SS section 1 somewhere at home, I'll have to measure it. Maybe the flanges are sized to accept any size section 2, but the pipe itself is slightly different. .14" isn't exactly a massive diameter difference.
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Old Fri, Jul-28-2017, 02:32:36 PM   #55
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Default Re: Help me bring a new exhaust to market

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Originally Posted by Theaxiom View Post
He has no idea what he's talking about and that make literally no difference.
Right coz 180 degree bends like the ones in the dual can setups(read RE el diablo style mufflers) make no difference to flow/exhaust speed. Ok buddy
Read up on pressure losses due to bends in fluid dynamics, static and dynamic pressure, its effect on velocity, and how more work is needed to push the same fluid in the same flow rate into a more restrictive(read has more static pressure due to bends or smaller diameter pipes for eg.) needs more work( read energy). Pressure loss is due to friction in the bend(outer side of the bend internally), and momentum loss due to directional change.. this energy will be exerted by your engine in the exhaust stroke,therefore wasted pushing exhaust gases. More energy used to push the gases out==less net horse power output.. there are other variables to consider,but as an engineer I always look to optimize a system/solution to it's fullest potential.. I can link u to a few sources but it's easy enough if you search
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Mods:
-Custom CF airbox
-SSV2 catless headers, Custom 2.5" dual sec1, Custom sec2 2.5" dual with e9xM X pipe, SuperSprint Race inspired custom section 3..
-Cat Cams 280 272.
-Custom dyno tune
-Tms pulleys and electric fan conversion
364.1 whp 287.8 wtq

Custom exhaust thread and dyno http://m3forum.net/m3forum/showthread.php?t=569086
Cams thread and dyno http://m3forum.net/m3forum/showthread.php?t=554439
Custom cf airbox thread http://m3forum.net/m3forum/showthread.php?t=595180
Why not to use after market bearings with surfacetreatments and /or increased clearance
http://www.m3forum.net/m3forum/showp...4&postcount=10

Last edited by HassanEido; Sat, Jul-29-2017 at 07:21:16 AM.
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Old Fri, Jul-28-2017, 03:24:38 PM   #56
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Default Re: Help me bring a new exhaust to market

Quote:
Originally Posted by HassanEido View Post
Right coz 180 degree bends like the ones in the dual can setups(read RE el diablo style mufflers) make no difference to flow/exhaust speed. Ok buddy
Read up on pressure losses due to bends in fluid dynamics, static and dynamic pressure, its effect on velocity, and how more work is needed to push the same fluid in the same flow rate into a more restrictive(read has more static pressure due to bends or smaller diameter pipes for eg.) needs more work( read energy). Pressure loss is due to friction in the bend(outer side of the bend internally), and momentum loss due to directional change.. this energ will be exerted by your engine in the exhaust stroke. More energy used to push the gases out==less net power output.. there are other variables to consider,but as an engineer I always look to optimize a system/solution to it's fullest potential.. I can link u to a few sources but it's easy enough if you search
Sure- How approximately how much pressure loss are we expected to see at different points in the exhaust? What flows faster, the exhaust on the inside or outside of the bend? Approximately how much power are you expected to lose due to drag/friction?

The answer is it's literally very insignificant.

If you're an engineer, you're one of the worst I've ever come in contact with.
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Old Fri, Jul-28-2017, 03:31:57 PM   #57
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Default Re: Help me bring a new exhaust to market

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Originally Posted by Theaxiom View Post
Sure- How approximately how much pressure loss are we expected to see at different points in the exhaust? What flows faster, the exhaust on the inside or outside of the bend? Approximately how much power are you expected to lose due to drag/friction?

The answer is it's literally very insignificant.

If you're an engineer, you're one of the worst I've ever come in contact with.
Lol ok... so lets add unnecessary bends? Because..why ? Rather than use less material/bends by optimizing a system and reduce anyyy potential power loss? add more welding points? Labor? Add to that that SS bends are actually more expensive than a straight pipe? Sure that makes sense.. u muddy up every thread u take part in with personal attacks.. not sure what ur purpose is though.. u mad bro?
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Mods:
-Custom CF airbox
-SSV2 catless headers, Custom 2.5" dual sec1, Custom sec2 2.5" dual with e9xM X pipe, SuperSprint Race inspired custom section 3..
-Cat Cams 280 272.
-Custom dyno tune
-Tms pulleys and electric fan conversion
364.1 whp 287.8 wtq

Custom exhaust thread and dyno http://m3forum.net/m3forum/showthread.php?t=569086
Cams thread and dyno http://m3forum.net/m3forum/showthread.php?t=554439
Custom cf airbox thread http://m3forum.net/m3forum/showthread.php?t=595180
Why not to use after market bearings with surfacetreatments and /or increased clearance
http://www.m3forum.net/m3forum/showp...4&postcount=10
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Old Fri, Jul-28-2017, 03:34:20 PM   #58
Theaxiom
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Default Re: Help me bring a new exhaust to market

Quote:
Originally Posted by HassanEido View Post
Lol ok... so lets add unnecessary bends?
Who said that?
Quote:
Originally Posted by HassanEido View Post
Because..why ? Rather than use less material/bends by optimizing a system and reduce anyyy potential power loss? add more welding points? Labor?
Packaging.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HassanEido View Post
Add to that that SS bends are actually more expensive than a straight pipe? Sure that makes sense.. u muddy up every thread u take part in with personal attacks.. not sure what ur purpose is though.. u mad bro?
Personal attacks on who?
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Old Fri, Jul-28-2017, 03:46:34 PM   #59
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Default Re: Help me bring a new exhaust to market

Quote:
Originally Posted by Theaxiom View Post
Who said that?

Packaging.


Personal attacks on who?
Right, that's why I said avoid bends in the design, when possible obviously. Something like the SS race has fewer bends with milder angles.optimization is key here.
Calling people idiots in ur earlier thread and now calling me the worst engineer u've seen lol, who are you again?
I suggest you relax more. You don't need to insult people inorder to have your ideas be heard.. just be nice to people, you'll find most here are positive and quick to help.

OP, sorry to slightly derail the thread, I just had to add my comments because I think they would be helpful to make this a true success
__________________

Mods:
-Custom CF airbox
-SSV2 catless headers, Custom 2.5" dual sec1, Custom sec2 2.5" dual with e9xM X pipe, SuperSprint Race inspired custom section 3..
-Cat Cams 280 272.
-Custom dyno tune
-Tms pulleys and electric fan conversion
364.1 whp 287.8 wtq

Custom exhaust thread and dyno http://m3forum.net/m3forum/showthread.php?t=569086
Cams thread and dyno http://m3forum.net/m3forum/showthread.php?t=554439
Custom cf airbox thread http://m3forum.net/m3forum/showthread.php?t=595180
Why not to use after market bearings with surfacetreatments and /or increased clearance
http://www.m3forum.net/m3forum/showp...4&postcount=10

Last edited by HassanEido; Fri, Jul-28-2017 at 03:50:05 PM.
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Old Fri, Jul-28-2017, 03:52:10 PM   #60
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Default Re: Help me bring a new exhaust to market

Quote:
Originally Posted by HassanEido View Post
Calling people idiots in ur earlier thread and now calling me the worst engineer u've seen lol, who are you again?
I suggest you relax more. You don't need to insult people inorder to have your ideas be heard.. just be nice to people, you'll find most here are positive and quick to help.

OP, sorry to slightly derail the thread, I just had to add my comments because I think they would be helpful to make this a true success
Well said lets get this back on track, and hopefully something will come out of it.
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Discussing Help me bring a new exhaust to market in the E46 M3 (2001-2006) Forum - Engine: S54 - Max Hp: 333 hp at 7,900 rpm / 262 lb/ft at 4,900 rpm
Total Produced: 45,000+ - Years Produced: 2001 to 2006. at BMW M3 Forum.com (E30 M3 | E36 M3 | E46 M3 | E92 M3 | F80/X)