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E36 M3 (1992-1999) {Euro - S50 B32 321hp @ 7400 rpm} {U.S. - S52 B32 240 hp @ 6000 rpm}
Total Produced: 71,212 - Years Produced: 1992 to 1999


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Old Wed, Aug-23-2017, 02:57:30 PM   #21
Bert ///M3
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Default Re: Front control arm ball joint

I would think that the 3.0 can't share the 2700mm wheelbase with the rest of the E36's since it uses the offset bushing.

That said, 3.0 also uses topmounts that are tilted more backwards, this might bring it back to 2700mm possibly but I'm not sure on this.

I have looked at photo's from my own M3 3.2 and the wheel sits slightly forward in the arch, this also has to do with the fact that I use offset bushes with 3.2 control arms. This is also an issue when you look up google pics, a lot of E36 M3 have this modification done so you're not really sure what they are using. When I pull up a picture of my 3.2 on the day I bought it, 13 years ago the wheel does appear to sit more forward in the arch, but not all photo's are very clear on this.



This photo however, when you look at it, would suggest that 3.0 arms + offset bush is very close to the regular 96+ M3 arm.

So it could be right that the M3 3.0 has 2710mm wheelbase after all. Or not but that the difference is in the kingpin.
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Old Wed, Aug-23-2017, 05:20:23 PM   #22
M_Parallel
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Default Re: Front control arm ball joint

The tilting of the shock should not affect wheelbase, unless the shock would sit way before or after the wheel center.
But I guess any amount of the strut not being exactly in the center of the wheel's center, will move the wheel. So it could be.

The kingpin is also different for all non-M3's, the 3.0 and the 3.2. So maybe this is the cause.

Or the sum of kingpin/LCAB/topmount.


All I can say that on my stock 328i setup and now 3.0 setup, the wheel is centered in the fender, while on my M3 3.2, it's clearly not.

Edit: I guess my comparison doesn't hold as I don't have 3.0 kingpins and since I don't know how these differ in geometry...it's still a guess.
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Old Wed, Aug-23-2017, 07:00:16 PM   #23
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Default Re: Front control arm ball joint

Ok so I just checked all my E36 M3 brochures, 3.0 and 3.2.

They are all listed as having 2710mm wheelbase.

So that makes it 2700 for non-M3's and 2710 for all M3's.
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Old Wed, Aug-23-2017, 07:25:56 PM   #24
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Default Re: Front control arm ball joint

When you move the top of the shock backwards, it does move the position of the wheel ever so slightly because the kingpin basicly tilts around the lower balljoint, the kingpin is above that so wheelbase will ever so slightly be affected.

But giving this some thought, a change of 3 degrees over 10 cm doesn't add up with 1 cm logitudal movement.

The kingpin isn't placed along the shock centerline either, usually a bit behind to add some trail value. (this is most likely also the key difference between a normal E36 spindle and a 3.0 spindle)

Both the 3.0 and 3.2 have about 7 degrees caster (6'50 if I recall correctly) and the top mounting point is in the same longitudal position, just offset to the side on the 3.2

So when you follow this logic, the 3.0 control arm + offset bush is identical or near identical to the 3.2 control arm with a centred bush.

So if you was upgrading your normal E36, you can take different paths. Add either offset bushes for more caster, add the 3,2 control arm for more caster, add the M3 topmounts for more caster (this can be done to increase camber too provided you use the 3.2 version)

My M3 3.2 is a mixmatch, 3.0 topmounts to add a degree of camber and offset bushes to further increase caster.
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Old Wed, Aug-23-2017, 07:34:16 PM   #25
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Default Re: Front control arm ball joint

Usually people put the 3.2 mounts on the other tower, so L on Right and R on Left for increased camber.
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Old Wed, Aug-23-2017, 07:56:42 PM   #26
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Default Re: Front control arm ball joint

I know this but its common knowlage and a bit OT to explain.

The swapped hats trick adds 2 degrees camber, changing the stock ones on a 3.2 for 3.0 parts adds 1 degree. Putting the reversed top plates on a regular E36 adds 1 degree camber and approximately 2 degrees caster.
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Old Wed, Aug-23-2017, 08:51:49 PM   #27
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Default Re: Front control arm ball joint

Good to know.
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Old Wed, Aug-23-2017, 09:56:26 PM   #28
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Default Front control arm ball joint

As I recall the 1996+M3 3.2L Forward Lower Control Arm outer ball joint moved forward 10mm.
Using a centered bushing effectively pulls the axle CL back.

The 3.0 and 3.2 Guide Supports appear to add the same amount of caster, tilting the strut aft, this should also pull the axle of the King Pin/Spindle aft slightly, as the axle 'tube' is above the King Pin/FLCA pivot point.

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Old Tue, Sep-05-2017, 02:12:09 AM   #29
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Default Re: Front control arm ball joint

I recently pressed in new ball joints. I'd recommend a minimum of a 20ton press. Mine popped pretty loud when they broke free. I'm guessing a HF 20ton wouldn't get the job done.
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Old Tue, Sep-05-2017, 05:10:58 AM   #30
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Default Re: Front control arm ball joint

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gmachine View Post
I recently pressed in new ball joints. I'd recommend a minimum of a 20ton press. Mine popped pretty loud when they broke free. I'm guessing a HF 20ton wouldn't get the job done.
HF 20ton works perfect.
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Discussing Front control arm ball joint in the E36 M3 (1992-1999) Forum - {Euro - S50 B32 321hp @ 7400 rpm} {U.S. - S52 B32 240 hp @ 6000 rpm}
Total Produced: 71,212 - Years Produced: 1992 to 1999 at BMW M3 Forum.com (E30 M3 | E36 M3 | E46 M3 | E92 M3 | F80/X)