BMW M3 Forum
BMW M3 Forum BMW M3 Gallery BMW M3 Reviews BMW M3 Social Groups BMW M3 Chat M3Forum Sponsors >>
Loading


Mobile M3forum
Go Back   BMW M3 Forum.com (E30 M3 | E36 M3 | E46 M3 | E92 M3 | F80/X) > BMW M3 Discussions > E36 M3 (1992-1999)
Tire Rack Buy Winter Tires Now!
Not a member? Register Now!
Register Gallery All Albums Garage Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Calendar FAQ

E36 M3 (1992-1999) {Euro - S50 B32 321hp @ 7400 rpm} {U.S. - S52 B32 240 hp @ 6000 rpm}
Total Produced: 71,212 - Years Produced: 1992 to 1999


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old Tue, Mar-14-2017, 11:27:56 AM   #21
fiveightandten
He'll save children, but not the British children...
 
fiveightandten's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,002
In the garage:
Reputation: 0 fiveightandten will become famous soon enough
Location: Connecticut

United States




Default Re: Money Shift Into Second Around 70 MPH

Quote:
Originally Posted by j0rdan J View Post
Just curious, does your car have the 5th gear lean issue? If so, that can explain why the money shift happened! When you fix the car, drop the trans and take care of that so it won't happen again
How would the 5th gear lean cause him to money shift from 3rd to 2nd?
__________________
-Nick

1986 325es || 2003 330ci || 1998 M3/4/5
Jump to top fiveightandten is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Register now and remove these ads
Old Tue, Mar-14-2017, 02:39:32 PM   #22
pbonsalb
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 3,263
Reputation: 0 pbonsalb is on a distinguished road





Default Re: Money Shift Into Second Around 70 MPH

Sloppy shifter does not help anything. I suppose one could be an indirect cause of missing a shift since it changes the pattern a little from where it should be.

I partially blame my E90M3 for my 4th to 2nd E mis-shift in my E36M3. The E90 has 4th where 2nd is on the E36 (the E90 has 2-4-6 in the rear of the pattern). I also blame myself -- I was tired, had not been driving the E36 much, and was not paying attention
Jump to top pbonsalb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Tue, Mar-14-2017, 03:03:46 PM   #23
englishtom1596q
Registered User
 
englishtom1596q's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,374
In the garage:
Reputation: 0 englishtom1596q is on a distinguished road
Location: The Mitten

United States




Default Re: Money Shift Into Second Around 70 MPH

Quote:
Originally Posted by fiveightandten View Post
How would the 5th gear lean cause him to money shift from 3rd to 2nd?
Because when you pull it out of 3rd it wants to pop over to the right. Meaning you have to put pressure on the shifter to hold it left to get it into 4th. Too much pressure and you can pop into 2nd. I've done it before on my old M3 which prompted me to immediately order the detent kit and get it sorted. Luckily for me I noticed the revs when I started to release the clutch.
__________________
Jump to top englishtom1596q is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Tue, Mar-14-2017, 03:27:45 PM   #24
fiveightandten
He'll save children, but not the British children...
 
fiveightandten's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,002
In the garage:
Reputation: 0 fiveightandten will become famous soon enough
Location: Connecticut

United States




Default Re: Money Shift Into Second Around 70 MPH

Quote:
Originally Posted by englishtom1596q View Post
Because when you pull it out of 3rd it wants to pop over to the right. Meaning you have to put pressure on the shifter to hold it left to get it into 4th. Too much pressure and you can pop into 2nd. I've done it before on my old M3 which prompted me to immediately order the detent kit and get it sorted. Luckily for me I noticed the revs when I started to release the clutch.
When I had the 5th gear lean, it was only sticky going in or out of the 5th gear gate. 3rd and 4th were completely unaffected, unless it involved shifting in/out of 5th to/from one of those gears.

I've never heard of this issue *pulling* the shifter into the 5th gear gate from 3rd gear.
__________________
-Nick

1986 325es || 2003 330ci || 1998 M3/4/5
Jump to top fiveightandten is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Tue, Mar-14-2017, 05:03:46 PM   #25
j0rdan J
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 51
In the garage:
Reputation: 0 j0rdan J is on a distinguished road
Location: Davis, Ca

United States




Default Re: Money Shift Into Second Around 70 MPH

Quote:
Originally Posted by fiveightandten View Post
How would the 5th gear lean cause him to money shift from 3rd to 2nd?
Quote:
Originally Posted by englishtom1596q View Post
Because when you pull it out of 3rd it wants to pop over to the right. Meaning you have to put pressure on the shifter to hold it left to get it into 4th. Too much pressure and you can pop into 2nd. I've done it before on my old M3 which prompted me to immediately order the detent kit and get it sorted. Luckily for me I noticed the revs when I started to release the clutch.
Basically this. At least for me, I had some difficulty getting fourth gear with my detent issue. Luckily I never money shifted my car. I do have a friend who grabbed second instead of fourth at highway speeds, he quickly pressed the clutch back in once he was near 7 grand. Luckily no damage.

Another issue my transmission had was the forward gear detents, so third and fourth were really notchy on my car and required considerable effort when cold
Jump to top j0rdan J is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Tue, Mar-14-2017, 05:05:28 PM   #26
tsmith25
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 10
Reputation: 0 tsmith25 is on a distinguished road

United States




Default Re: Money Shift Into Second Around 70 MPH

Quote:
Originally Posted by fiveightandten View Post
When I had the 5th gear lean, it was only sticky going in or out of the 5th gear gate. 3rd and 4th were completely unaffected, unless it involved shifting in/out of 5th to/from one of those gears.

I've never heard of this issue *pulling* the shifter into the 5th gear gate from 3rd gear.
You weren't quite at the fifth gear lean stage yet then. Also, 5th gear lean doesn't shift the pattern like some people have said, it just reduces the centering that the transmission does for you. Mine is like you are describing. When it is cool in the morning and the transmission has not warmed up yet, if I put it into 5th, It will give me the lean till it gets warmed up. I treat it like a 4 speed till it gets hot now to avoid that. I never understood how people money shift, until I was driving mine and got the temporary 5th gear lean. It is exactly like he described above. You can't hit 4th without pulling it a little towards 2nd. It would be easy if you were rushing to go past and hit 2nd instead.
Jump to top tsmith25 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Tue, Mar-14-2017, 05:29:02 PM   #27
fiveightandten
He'll save children, but not the British children...
 
fiveightandten's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,002
In the garage:
Reputation: 0 fiveightandten will become famous soon enough
Location: Connecticut

United States




Default Re: Money Shift Into Second Around 70 MPH

Quote:
Originally Posted by tsmith25 View Post
You weren't quite at the fifth gear lean stage yet then. Also, 5th gear lean doesn't shift the pattern like some people have said, it just reduces the centering that the transmission does for you. Mine is like you are describing. When it is cool in the morning and the transmission has not warmed up yet, if I put it into 5th, It will give me the lean till it gets warmed up. I treat it like a 4 speed till it gets hot now to avoid that. I never understood how people money shift, until I was driving mine and got the temporary 5th gear lean. It is exactly like he described above. You can't hit 4th without pulling it a little towards 2nd. It would be easy if you were rushing to go past and hit 2nd instead.
Agreed. It sounds like you have the typical symptoms. But out of all the documentation I've seen and every E36 I've driven with 5th gear lean issues in the past 10+ years, I've never heard of the transmission pulling the gear shift from 3rd to 5th when 5th was not initially engaged. That sounds very dangerous.

Anyways, I think we can all agree on the formula to avoid misshifts:
-Good condition motor mounts and transmission mounts
-Good condition shift linkage parts
-Fix 5th gear lean
-Prudent shift technique

If any of those things are questionable in your mind, don't drop that clutch out before you know where your shifter is. It's not worth the 1/2 second to confirm....on the street or on the track.
__________________
-Nick

1986 325es || 2003 330ci || 1998 M3/4/5
Jump to top fiveightandten is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Tue, Mar-14-2017, 11:39:39 PM   #28
thirtysixnick
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 107
In the garage:
Reputation: 0 thirtysixnick is on a distinguished road
Location: Tulsa

United States




Default Re: Money Shift Into Second Around 70 MPH

To answer the fifth gear lean question, yes.
Do I think it caused my miss shift? No. I blame myself and bad bushings that should've been replaced my first few months of ownership.

Tried doing a compression test today, but my battery is SHOT.
At first cylinder 1 pulled 150psi and then after slowing moving down cylinders the cranking got slower and slower along with the other cylinder's psi decreasing so I went back to cylinder one and pulled 90psi.

I hooked my car up to my dads Camry with jumper's and restarted from cylinder one, pulled 150psi again, pulled 90psi on two, went back to cylinder one and pulled 90psi.

Can't tell if the tool or it was just my shot battery so I moved to cylinder three and pulled like 60psi???? Cylinder three wasn't even one that was read for a misfire so I just assumed the battery is done, even on jumpers. I believe the battery is long overdue to be replaced I've just been neglectful on changing that.

I decided to order two new ignition coils for cylinder four and five, as per instruction from the indy mechanic who's done pretty much all the work on my car previously (including new clutch/flywheel/rear main seal/electric fan swap).

Quick final question: when I was doing the compression test I removed the fuel pump relay and went WOT during the times I was cranking the engine. Would doing this harm the engine or flood anything that would ignite on initial startup since I couldn't start the engine to completely run it out of fuel? Sorry4noobyness
Jump to top thirtysixnick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Wed, Mar-15-2017, 12:25:29 AM   #29
M_Parallel
Mr. OEM
 
M_Parallel's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 1,590
Reputation: 0 M_Parallel is on a distinguished road
Location: Home Court

Netherlands




Default Re: Money Shift Into Second Around 70 MPH

Ok I see the hand positioning article is already mentioned now.

WhenI saw that some years ago, I tried it. At first a little odd, now it has become second nature.




When you shift from 3 to 4, don't you reverse your hand? (So the thumb is down and the shifter is at the right of your hand, not on the left side).

It's water under the bridge now, but this makes it impossible to pull the shifter to the left wjen pulling out of 3.
__________________

'98 S50B32 M3 SMG Cabrio . Alpinweiß III auf Schwarz . 1 of 10 made

Last edited by M_Parallel; Wed, Mar-15-2017 at 12:34:49 AM.
Jump to top M_Parallel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Wed, Mar-15-2017, 12:56:35 AM   #30
fiveightandten
He'll save children, but not the British children...
 
fiveightandten's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,002
In the garage:
Reputation: 0 fiveightandten will become famous soon enough
Location: Connecticut

United States




Default Re: Money Shift Into Second Around 70 MPH

Quote:
Originally Posted by thirtysixnick View Post
To answer the fifth gear lean question, yes.
Do I think it caused my miss shift? No. I blame myself and bad bushings that should've been replaced my first few months of ownership.

Tried doing a compression test today, but my battery is SHOT.
At first cylinder 1 pulled 150psi and then after slowing moving down cylinders the cranking got slower and slower along with the other cylinder's psi decreasing so I went back to cylinder one and pulled 90psi.

I hooked my car up to my dads Camry with jumper's and restarted from cylinder one, pulled 150psi again, pulled 90psi on two, went back to cylinder one and pulled 90psi.

Can't tell if the tool or it was just my shot battery so I moved to cylinder three and pulled like 60psi???? Cylinder three wasn't even one that was read for a misfire so I just assumed the battery is done, even on jumpers. I believe the battery is long overdue to be replaced I've just been neglectful on changing that.

I decided to order two new ignition coils for cylinder four and five, as per instruction from the indy mechanic who's done pretty much all the work on my car previously (including new clutch/flywheel/rear main seal/electric fan swap).

Quick final question: when I was doing the compression test I removed the fuel pump relay and went WOT during the times I was cranking the engine. Would doing this harm the engine or flood anything that would ignite on initial startup since I couldn't start the engine to completely run it out of fuel? Sorry4noobyness
Ignore the cylinder numbers and your test results suggest a lack of power to crank the engine sufficiently.

Test 1 - 150
Test 2 - 90
Test 3 - 90
Test 4 - 60

You should see the needle rise very rapidly, then rise a little more, and stop rising. It sounds to me like the engine just wasn't cranking enough. Was the Camry running? That should provide sufficient power, but you may have to wait a few minutes in between tests. It sounds like you need a new battery regardless.
__________________
-Nick

1986 325es || 2003 330ci || 1998 M3/4/5
Jump to top fiveightandten is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
cel, e36 m3 money shift, misfire, money shift

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT. The time now is 08:51:24 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
M3Forum.com and M3forum.net is in no way sponsored, endorsed or affiliated by or with BMW NA / BMW AG or any of it's subsidiaries or vendors.
BMW and M3 (E90 M3 | E92 M3 | E93 M3 | E46 M3 | E36 M3 | E30 M3) are registered trademarks of BMW AG.
M3Forum Terms of Service
Copyright ©1999-2014 M3Forum.com
Discussing Money Shift Into Second Around 70 MPH in the E36 M3 (1992-1999) Forum - {Euro - S50 B32 321hp @ 7400 rpm} {U.S. - S52 B32 240 hp @ 6000 rpm}
Total Produced: 71,212 - Years Produced: 1992 to 1999 at BMW M3 Forum.com (E30 M3 | E36 M3 | E46 M3 | E92 M3 | F80/X)