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E46 M3 (2001-2006) Engine: S54 - Max Hp: 333 hp at 7,900 rpm / 262 lb/ft at 4,900 rpm
Total Produced: 45,000+ - Years Produced: 2001 to 2006.


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Old Tue, Jan-17-2017, 04:25:33 PM   #11
HassanEido
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Default Re: Why is my cammed s54 still making the same power?

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I wrong in assuming even an untuned cam car would still make more power than before? The fact that it doesn't is what makes me skeptical.
Yes. An untuned cammed car will make less power.. my car made 313.4 whp before cams. After cams it was making 290.. some 23 whp were missing before the retune, similar loss was in torque it went from 267 to 245 or so
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348.4 whp 283.5 wtq

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Old Tue, Jan-17-2017, 05:06:31 PM   #12
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Default Re: Why is my cammed s54 still making the same power?

I would get on the dyno and have a custom tune done, only if the car checks out mechanically.

It took me months and multiple visits to the dyno with my tuner to achieve my results and drivability, 371whp/260wtq, on a stock head with the 288/280's.
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Old Tue, Jan-17-2017, 08:52:02 PM   #13
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Default Re: Why is my cammed s54 still making the same power?

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Leak down was done. From my understanding there's nothing a compression test would show that the leak down wouldn't assuming I could even get accurate results in the compression check with these cams and the huge overlap.
i value compression test data over leakdown. i would only ever do leakdown upon finding issues with a compression test. compression test can tell you if cam base timing is off, you would expect a reduction with a cammed engine compared to stock, if the compression is higher the stock then youd know the timing is way off

post up overlayed dyno data, the shape of the curves can be revealing as whether its a vanos issue or something

its unlikely to be anything related to bottom end, most likely vanos and tuning but its always good to check mechanical things
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Old Tue, Jan-17-2017, 09:32:27 PM   #14
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Default Re: Why is my cammed s54 still making the same power?

I'm not understanding how compression can be higher if timing is off, or lower because he's running different cams.
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Old Tue, Jan-17-2017, 09:49:29 PM   #15
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Default Re: Why is my cammed s54 still making the same power?

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Originally Posted by CrookedCommie View Post
I'm not understanding how compression can be higher if timing is off, or lower because he's running different cams.
Static compression changes, since longer durartion cams have higher overlap, and valves open sooner and close later. Which means that the cylinder might not seal as well statically while cranking, so you get a lower static compression reading if you test the conventional way, and it's partly why tuning is needed for cams. Of course vanos tuning changes that, and your dynamic compression will rise back with proper tuning, and with the added flow you'll be makibg more power.
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Old Tue, Jan-17-2017, 09:52:43 PM   #16
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Default Re: Why is my cammed s54 still making the same power?

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I'm not understanding how compression can be higher if timing is off, or lower because he's running different cams.
if its not timed correctly it could be installed over advanced, which raises cranking compression. a non vanos engine with similar specs would crank closer to 200psi, the s54 cranks lower than this because of the default cam installation position is retarded alot
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Old Tue, Jan-17-2017, 11:15:17 PM   #17
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Default Re: Why is my cammed s54 still making the same power?

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Originally Posted by nickpiper12 View Post
I would get on the dyno and have a custom tune done, only if the car checks out mechanically.

It took me months and multiple visits to the dyno with my tuner to achieve my results and drivability, 371whp/260wtq, on a stock head with the 288/280's.
100% agreed w/this! It can take lots of trial and error to find the right combination of parts and tuning to make these motors come alive...just throwing parts at a car w/o proper knowledge and tuning sometimes ends with poor results.

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if its not timed correctly it could be installed over advanced, which raises cranking compression. a non vanos engine with similar specs would crank closer to 200psi, the s54 cranks lower than this because of the default cam installation position is retarded alot
Ya, agreed digger, but typically what we're seeing here w/folks that are having poor results running these 288 cams is a reduction in static compression from skewed cam timing. I think OP will eventually find that (barring any other mechanical defects) his is a cam timing problem...makes all the difference in the world!

EDIT: Just wanted to add that until mechanical cam timing has been corrected...everything else in the tune is irrelevant.
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Old Tue, Jan-17-2017, 11:24:38 PM   #18
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Default Re: Why is my cammed s54 still making the same power?

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Originally Posted by stash1 View Post
100% agreed w/this! It can take lots of trial and error to find the right combination of parts and tuning to make these motors come alive...just throwing parts at a car w/o proper knowledge and tuning sometimes ends with poor results.



Ya, agreed digger, but typically what we're seeing here w/folks that are having poor results running these 288 cams is a reduction in static compression from skewed cam timing. I think OP will eventually find that (barring any other mechanical defects) his is a cam timing problem...makes all the difference in the world!

EDIT: Just wanted to add that until mechanical cam timing has been corrected...everything else in the tune is irrelevant.
is the end result more advance in the vanos maps compared to what you end up with stock cam and optimised tune? Im assuming the IVC is going to end up somewhere close to what it was before with the standard cam within a few degrees. i would have still expect a gain somewhere at the very topend with no tuning changes
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Old Tue, Jan-17-2017, 11:24:55 PM   #19
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Default Re: Why is my cammed s54 still making the same power?

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Originally Posted by nickpiper12 View Post
I would get on the dyno and have a custom tune done, only if the car checks out mechanically.

It took me months and multiple visits to the dyno with my tuner to achieve my results and drivability, 371whp/260wtq, on a stock head with the 288/280's.
holy christ. you made 371 with 288s and just basic bolt ons? thats pretty damn good lol
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Old Tue, Jan-17-2017, 11:42:38 PM   #20
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Default Re: Why is my cammed s54 still making the same power?

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Originally Posted by HassanEido View Post
Static compression changes, since longer durartion cams have higher overlap, and valves open sooner and close later. Which means that the cylinder might not seal as well statically while cranking, so you get a lower static compression reading if you test the conventional way, and it's partly why tuning is needed for cams. Of course vanos tuning changes that, and your dynamic compression will rise back with proper tuning, and with the added flow you'll be makibg more power.
And if you aren't expecting the compression numbers to be lower you will go Code Brown after seeing what your brand new fully built engine with 288/280s reads.
Ask me how I know...

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Discussing Why is my cammed s54 still making the same power? in the E46 M3 (2001-2006) Forum - Engine: S54 - Max Hp: 333 hp at 7,900 rpm / 262 lb/ft at 4,900 rpm
Total Produced: 45,000+ - Years Produced: 2001 to 2006. at BMW M3 Forum.com (E30 M3 | E36 M3 | E46 M3 | E92 M3 | F80/X)