Noisy upper chain and or Vanos

bremms · Sun, Jun-17-2012, 12:52:29 AM

First things first. Everything in the timing chain system has been replaced.
EVERYTHING top to bottom.

My upper chain was always very noisy. It's worse around 2800-3500 RPM.
Replaced a bent rod (PO did that) installed a HG and all new bearings. Oil pump everything.
Vanos has a Beisan treatment and does NOT rattle at all.

Upper chain and or Vanos sounds like a buzz saw from 2500-3500. Been a little worse as of late. Also getting a slight light-medium throttle surging.
Last time it was removed it looked great and actuated well even with 15 PSI of air tightened down.

Maybe my Vanos is having an issue. All the cogs, chains and tensioners are new. Throwing NO codes. Still runs well other than the light surging on occasion. Compression is great, burns no oil. This noise had been there since before I did any work. Vanos was a little noisy so I fixed that and the chain noise went away for about a week the came back. Does this car just have a noisy upper chain and Vanos gears??? I expect some noise but it is pretty loud.

Any opinions ?? Should I just get a good used Vanos do the Beisan kit and swap it out?? I probably would have gone with the stage 2 Dr VAnos if I didn't replace all my gears and plates already.

enderw88 · Sun, Jun-17-2012, 01:13:21 AM

Are you sure the tensioner is installed/working correctly?

bremms · Sun, Jun-17-2012, 04:14:55 AM

Yes. Primary tensioner was replaced and installed correctly. The secondary tensioner was replaced twice in case the first was out of spec. Can't get a handle on this noise. At this point it must be the Vanos gears making noise. Or an upper chain issue. Cam gears, chain, tensioner friction plates were all replaced.

Don't think I have a bent cam, that's not really possible.

enderw88 · Sun, Jun-17-2012, 04:19:43 AM

Can you measure the oil pressure?

bremms · Sun, Jun-17-2012, 06:57:26 PM

Did a check when I put the engine back together. ~60 psi above 2500 and
30 or so at idle warm. Guess I could check it again, but it doesn't make any other oil pressure related noises. Thought about a plugged passage to the upper tensioner and front lifters/ cam bearings. Then again there are no symptoms and it's not rattle I've heard from a bad tensioner. Car was better today and the noise is LESS prominent when warm. It looked like the guide block on the tensioner may be rocking back and forth(same plane as the link pins)around the piston axis.. The chain does ride on the center and not the ends of the block. I'm not psyched about messing with the Vanos/ chains again although I can do it in my sleep now! No surging at all today either.

enderw88 · Sun, Jun-17-2012, 10:08:09 PM

I am out of ideas, but If possible I would carefully inspect the area around the timing chain to see where the chain is hitting. Should be nice and shiny...

bremms · Mon, Jun-18-2012, 02:09:23 AM

The light surging may have been bad fuel. I filled up today and the car ran great. Listened very carefully to the noise and it sounds like the chain, cams and Vanos are in resonance. Starts at about 2800 ends at about 3500. I'm going to get and rebuild another Vanos.

Your ideas were great, spot on with what I was thinking. They just weren't the problem.

Here is a pic for you

enderw88 · Mon, Jun-18-2012, 03:06:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bremms

The light surging may have been bad fuel. I filled up today and the car ran great. Listened very carefully to the noise and it sounds like the chain, cams and Vanos are in resonance. Starts at about 2800 ends at about 3500. I'm going to get and rebuild another Vanos.

Your ideas were great, spot on with what I was thinking. They just weren't the problem.

Here is a pic for you

Nice Se7en!

I don't see how rebuilding the VANOS would help with chain noise. Is their a way to mechanically disable the VANOS to see if the problem goes away?

tbaker474 · Mon, Jun-18-2012, 10:30:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bremms

Did a check when I put the engine back together. ~60 psi above 2500 and
30 or so at idle warm. Guess I could check it again, but it doesn't make any other oil pressure related noises. Thought about a plugged passage to the upper tensioner and front lifters/ cam bearings. Then again there are no symptoms and it's not rattle I've heard from a bad tensioner. Car was better today and the noise is LESS prominent when warm. It looked like the guide block on the tensioner may be rocking back and forth(same plane as the link pins)around the piston axis.. The chain does ride on the center and not the ends of the block. I'm not psyched about messing with the Vanos/ chains again although I can do it in my sleep now! No surging at all today either.

30 psi at idle sounds abnormally high, especially if the oil is warm. IIRC idle oil pressure should be in the range of about 10psi.

Sun, Jun-17-2012, 12:52:29 AM	#1
bremms Registered User Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 289 Reputation: 0	Noisy upper chain and or Vanos First things first. Everything in the timing chain system has been replaced. EVERYTHING top to bottom. My upper chain was always very noisy. It's worse around 2800-3500 RPM. Replaced a bent rod (PO did that) installed a HG and all new bearings. Oil pump everything. Vanos has a Beisan treatment and does NOT rattle at all. Upper chain and or Vanos sounds like a buzz saw from 2500-3500. Been a little worse as of late. Also getting a slight light-medium throttle surging. Last time it was removed it looked great and actuated well even with 15 PSI of air tightened down. Maybe my Vanos is having an issue. All the cogs, chains and tensioners are new. Throwing NO codes. Still runs well other than the light surging on occasion. Compression is great, burns no oil. This noise had been there since before I did any work. Vanos was a little noisy so I fixed that and the chain noise went away for about a week the came back. Does this car just have a noisy upper chain and Vanos gears??? I expect some noise but it is pretty loud. Any opinions ?? Should I just get a good used Vanos do the Beisan kit and swap it out?? I probably would have gone with the stage 2 Dr VAnos if I didn't replace all my gears and plates already. __________________ 99 Fern M3 Homebuilt Lotus Seven replica Volvo redblock power 2002 Taco 2004 Aprilia Mille Factory 2003 Kwak ZRX SOLD!

Sun, Jun-17-2012, 01:13:21 AM	#2
enderw88 Craig Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 1,619 In the garage: '95 BMW M3 Reputation: 0 Location: Tucson	Re: Noisy upper chain and or Vanos Are you sure the tensioner is installed/working correctly? __________________ 95 BMW M3 Current Project Cosmos Black, E46 6SP, VSL Rad, Stewart Water Pump, AA Header with 3" exhaust, aFe CAI, Euro HFM, 24lbs/hr injectors, unknown tune?, BW SS Brake Lines, Hawk HP+ Pads, M X-Brace, Mason Engineering Aluminum Strut Bar, MM Underpanel. To Do: Overhaul rear suspension, front suspension Tucson, AZ

Sun, Jun-17-2012, 04:14:55 AM	#3
bremms Registered User Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 289 Reputation: 0	Re: Noisy upper chain and or Vanos Yes. Primary tensioner was replaced and installed correctly. The secondary tensioner was replaced twice in case the first was out of spec. Can't get a handle on this noise. At this point it must be the Vanos gears making noise. Or an upper chain issue. Cam gears, chain, tensioner friction plates were all replaced. Don't think I have a bent cam, that's not really possible. __________________ 99 Fern M3 Homebuilt Lotus Seven replica Volvo redblock power 2002 Taco 2004 Aprilia Mille Factory 2003 Kwak ZRX SOLD!

Sun, Jun-17-2012, 04:19:43 AM	#4
enderw88 Craig Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 1,619 In the garage: '95 BMW M3 Reputation: 0 Location: Tucson	Re: Noisy upper chain and or Vanos Can you measure the oil pressure? __________________ 95 BMW M3 Current Project Cosmos Black, E46 6SP, VSL Rad, Stewart Water Pump, AA Header with 3" exhaust, aFe CAI, Euro HFM, 24lbs/hr injectors, unknown tune?, BW SS Brake Lines, Hawk HP+ Pads, M X-Brace, Mason Engineering Aluminum Strut Bar, MM Underpanel. To Do: Overhaul rear suspension, front suspension Tucson, AZ

Sun, Jun-17-2012, 06:57:26 PM	#5
bremms Registered User Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 289 Reputation: 0	Re: Noisy upper chain and or Vanos Did a check when I put the engine back together. ~60 psi above 2500 and 30 or so at idle warm. Guess I could check it again, but it doesn't make any other oil pressure related noises. Thought about a plugged passage to the upper tensioner and front lifters/ cam bearings. Then again there are no symptoms and it's not rattle I've heard from a bad tensioner. Car was better today and the noise is LESS prominent when warm. It looked like the guide block on the tensioner may be rocking back and forth(same plane as the link pins)around the piston axis.. The chain does ride on the center and not the ends of the block. I'm not psyched about messing with the Vanos/ chains again although I can do it in my sleep now! No surging at all today either. __________________ 99 Fern M3 Homebuilt Lotus Seven replica Volvo redblock power 2002 Taco 2004 Aprilia Mille Factory 2003 Kwak ZRX SOLD!

Sun, Jun-17-2012, 10:08:09 PM	#6
enderw88 Craig Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 1,619 In the garage: '95 BMW M3 Reputation: 0 Location: Tucson	Re: Noisy upper chain and or Vanos I am out of ideas, but If possible I would carefully inspect the area around the timing chain to see where the chain is hitting. Should be nice and shiny... __________________ 95 BMW M3 Current Project Cosmos Black, E46 6SP, VSL Rad, Stewart Water Pump, AA Header with 3" exhaust, aFe CAI, Euro HFM, 24lbs/hr injectors, unknown tune?, BW SS Brake Lines, Hawk HP+ Pads, M X-Brace, Mason Engineering Aluminum Strut Bar, MM Underpanel. To Do: Overhaul rear suspension, front suspension Tucson, AZ

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