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E46 M3 (2001-2006) Engine: S54 - Max Hp: 333 hp at 7,900 rpm / 262 lb/ft at 4,900 rpm
Total Produced: 45,000+ - Years Produced: 2001 to 2006.


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Old Tue, Mar-14-2017, 10:50:14 AM   #11
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Default Re: VANOS P00012 code, no intake movement

Your picture of intake cam piston confuses me. Regardless of solenoid and/or oil pressure, When car is at TDC and cams full retarded, that piston should be sitting flush with backside of the vanos. It's almost like your piston is not connected to the splined shaft or you are not tensioning the diaphragm plates properly and they are slipping.

I do not use the beisan method as it is difficult to torque the bolts with vanos head on.

There is a YouTube video that I have used several times which works well and has you torque bolts to 10.5 ft-lb IIRC once you have splined shaft in and pulled to where the teeth are barely showing.


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Old Tue, Mar-14-2017, 03:42:19 PM   #12
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Default Re: VANOS P00012 code, no intake movement

Just throwing this out there, with my hub tightened, the intake spline has a little bit of play (1mm) axially. It is not the bearing/washer play because I did the replacement of those parts as part of my Beisan VANOS refresh so I know there is no axial play in those. Could this be the issue? I am not sure why there is that axial play as the exhaust side does not do the same thing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThunderMoose View Post
Your picture of intake cam piston confuses me. Regardless of solenoid and/or oil pressure, When car is at TDC and cams full retarded, that piston should be sitting flush with backside of the vanos. It's almost like your piston is not connected to the splined shaft or you are not tensioning the diaphragm plates properly and they are slipping.
The intake picture is after car startup so I guess the piston doesnt end up in exactly the same position as when you are setting it up? The way I set it up the past time is I had the end caps off, put everything together (VANOS torqued on head), partially tightened the hub, and then tightened on the caps (pushing the piston in slightly). At that point, the piston is sitting not flush with the back of the bore but rather it is sitting touching the end caps, so the piston is slightly less than flush.

Can you elaborate on the tensioning of the diaphragm springs? Is the purpose to keep the splined shafts from accidentally moving the hub while you are tightening the rest of the hub. I set up both intake and exhaust of my VANOS the same way so I would expect the timing to be off on both sides? Also, I got the same results whether I tensioned the diaphragm springs or not; I always end up at around 50-51 for max retard on the intake.

Quote:
Originally Posted by paulclaude View Post
Have you reset the DME/Vanos adaptations? If not reset, they usually hold the old values and can give some odd results. CPS normally throws a code if it's faulty, but always possible.

The full retard position (60deg) of the intake cam is where the cam sits without any Vanos influence (pistons fully retracted), and is also where you are pinning it with the timing bridge. Is the bridge definitely sitting completely flat to the head and pin sliding in easily with crank locked at TDC? Even the smallest of lift can have a few degrees change.
By reset adapt you mean in GT1 DME->Vanos->Service Functions (i think its called service functions ... )-> reset vanos adaptations? Did that but nothing changed; adaptations were similar (on the bright side, my exhaust is adapted maybe -0.6? so not bad). Plus I think I read somewhere the DME changes your adaptations when your car is running right? Also, right now my adaptations are at like -7.5 or something so its already at its maximal adaptation.

The bridge sits completely flat on both sides when I lock it down at TDC. Flat as in if I put the pin in with some oil, it will basically drop all the way in itself. However, after I remove the timing pins and crank pin, when I rotate the engine by hand 720, the bridge no longer sits flat. The intake is lifted maybe a papers thickness on the intake side of the head, and the exhaust is lifted maybe 1mm on the intake side. Exhaust may seem a lot worse because it is pivoting about the exhaust cam so it lifts farther off the engine head on the intake side. Not ideal, but i have not gotten an error on the exhaust side yet.
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Last edited by Slowmobile; Tue, Mar-14-2017 at 03:56:48 PM.
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Old Tue, Mar-14-2017, 04:13:42 PM   #13
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Default Re: VANOS P00012 code, no intake movement

I've never heard of installing it that way. By tightening the caps down on protruding pistons, the hubs will rotate along with the cams. That's probably why the cam is ending up too advanced (51deg vs 60), as the cam will be rotating with the hubs.

Follow this method:

Install the splined shafts to the vanos unit with the caps in place. Push both pistons/splined shafts fully back into the vanos unit. With cams locked in position with the timing bridge, rotate both hubs fully clockwise, and install the vanos unit. Ensure engagement on eached splined shaft is on the first counter-clockwise available spline from the hub fully clockwise position.

You can also use the 'sweet tooth' method, although it really makes no difference to operation. Prior to attaching the splined shafts to the Vanos unit, simply use a pen to mark where each hub has engagment with the splined shaft without any ccw hub rotation from full cw position.

The preloading is carried out with the vanos set back slightly from the head, after vanos is inserted. The spacers are approximately the same width as the dowels, so essentially dowel position. It provides resistance against the splines and hubs to take up any play while bolting the vanos down the last few mm.
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Old Tue, Mar-14-2017, 04:23:36 PM   #14
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Default Re: VANOS P00012 code, no intake movement

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slowmobile View Post
By reset adapt you mean in GT1 DME->Vanos->Service Functions (i think its called service functions ... )-> reset vanos adaptations? Did that but nothing changed; adaptations were similar (on the bright side, my exhaust is adapted maybe -0.6? so not bad). Plus I think I read somewhere the DME changes your adaptations when your car is running right? Also, right now my adaptations are at like -7.5 or something so its already at its maximal adaptation.
That doesn't make much sense, perhaps they are the old stored values. If your inlet position is 51.5 then the DME hasn't adapted - it's 0.5deg outside of the tolerance range of 8deg (60deg +/-8deg). Also, Vanos test runs inlet side first, so until you have fixed the inlet side, you won't know how your exhaust side is behaving

But yes, adaptation values can be reset in GT1 under that menu.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slowmobile View Post
The bridge sits completely flat on both sides when I lock it down at TDC. Flat as in if I put the pin in with some oil, it will basically drop all the way in itself. However, after I remove the timing pins and crank pin, when I rotate the engine by hand 720, the bridge no longer sits flat. The intake is lifted maybe a papers thickness on the intake side of the head, and the exhaust is lifted maybe 1mm on the intake side. Exhaust may seem a lot worse because it is pivoting about the exhaust cam so it lifts farther off the engine head on the intake side. Not ideal, but i have not gotten an error on the exhaust side yet.
This can happen due to cam chain slack and/or tensioner wear. A trick is to leave the exhaust side locked, and re-adjust the intake side with the vanos all in place. This holds the tension on the chain while you adjust. See comment above about correct hub installation
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Old Tue, Mar-14-2017, 04:27:15 PM   #15
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Default Re: VANOS P00012 code, no intake movement

Quote:
Originally Posted by paulclaude View Post
I've never heard of installing it that way. By tightening the caps down on protruding pistons, the hubs will rotate along with the cams. That's probably why the cam is ending up too advanced (51deg vs 60), as the cam will be rotating with the hubs.
I have the VANOS bolted to the head and the hubs loose when i torque down the end caps (well each of the hubs 2 bolts, left and right, are snugged down so there is resistance to movement, but not enough that the cams turn with it). Then after the end caps are torqued on, I then torque down the hub bolts. I rechecked the timing at this point before removing the crank pin and the pins still slide in easily.

I think your method is the Beisan way if I am not mistaken? I have tried that one with the same result. I am beginning to wonder if I have a systematic error that I am totally missing... Maybe I will try the next sweetest tooth cause I've been setting it at my sweet tooth everytime and it basically just slides in with minimal hub rotation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by paulclaude View Post
That doesn't make much sense, perhaps they are the old stored values. If your inlet position is 51.5 then the DME hasn't adapted - it's 0.5deg outside of the tolerance range of 8deg (60deg +/-8deg). Also, Vanos test runs inlet side first, so until you have fixed the inlet side, you won't know how your exhaust side is behaving

But yes, adaptation values can be reset in GT1 under that menu.



This can happen due to cam chain slack and/or tensioner wear. A trick is to leave the exhaust side locked, and re-adjust the intake side with the vanos all in place. This holds the tension on the chain while you adjust. See comment above about correct hub installation
Makes sense. I just mean I have no INPA codes saying my exhaust is over or underretarded like I have with my intake (Error 184). Guess that'l be round 2 after I finish the intake side shoot me now haha

I did change out the chain guide tensioner... So maybe the sprocket itself is moving a little bit you mean?
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Last edited by Slowmobile; Tue, Mar-14-2017 at 04:32:40 PM.
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Old Tue, Mar-14-2017, 04:39:18 PM   #16
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Default Re: VANOS P00012 code, no intake movement

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Originally Posted by Slowmobile View Post
I have the VANOS bolted to the head and the hubs loose when i torque down the end caps (well each of the hubs 2 bolts, left and right, are snugged down so there is resistance to movement, but not enough that the cams turn with it). Then after the end caps are torqued on, I then torque down the hub bolts. I rechecked the timing at this point before removing the crank pin and the pins still slide in easily.

I think your method is the Beisan way if I am not mistaken? I have tried that one with the same result. I am beginning to wonder if I have a systematic error that I am totally missing... Maybe I will try the next sweetest tooth cause I've been setting it at my sweet tooth everytime and it basically just slides in with minimal hub rotation.
Yes, I think it is the same as the Besian method.

I've just realised what you said about the bridge being lifted slightly when you rotate the crank 720. If it is lifted on the intake side, it means that the cam would only be slightly retarded 51.5deg means that the cam is actually 8.5deg too advanced...

Is it a genuine BMW bridge tool? Is the DME stock, i.e. non tuned?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slowmobile View Post
Makes sense. I just mean I have no INPA codes saying my exhaust is over or underretarded like I have with my intake (Error 184). Guess that'l be round 2 after I finish the intake side shoot me now haha

I did change out the chain guide tensioner... So maybe the sprocket itself is moving a little bit you mean?
Yes, I think it's basically the slack/play in the assembly/chain/sprockets that causes the slight change after engine is rotated.

Good sign that exhaust side is ok if no codes via INPA
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Old Tue, Mar-14-2017, 05:01:58 PM   #17
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Default Re: VANOS P00012 code, no intake movement

Quote:
Originally Posted by paulclaude View Post
Yes, I think it is the same as the Besian method.

I've just realised what you said about the bridge being lifted slightly when you rotate the crank 720. If it is lifted on the intake side, it means that the cam would only be slightly retarded 51.5deg means that the cam is actually 8.5deg too advanced...

Is it a genuine BMW bridge tool? Is the DME stock, i.e. non tuned?

Yes, I think it's basically the slack/play in the assembly/chain/sprockets that causes the slight change after engine is rotated.

Good sign that exhaust side is ok if no codes via INPA
Yes it is a genuine bridge tool. It better be, it cost like $130! DME is... well i had the TTFS smg flashed on there but that's it.
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Old Tue, Mar-14-2017, 05:42:01 PM   #18
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Default Re: VANOS P00012 code, no intake movement

I may have missed this, but did you use brake cleaner to clear the ports in that aluminum distribution block (the one coils mount to)?

Since you have DIS, go to component activation in Expert mode and activate the VANOS valves separately. It will pulse each one for 10 seconds, and you should be able to (faintly) hear the needle valves tapping as they open and close. This will tell you if: (1) the coils are bad, or (2) you've got a sluggish needle valve, and need further cleaning.
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Old Tue, Mar-14-2017, 06:29:44 PM   #19
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Default Re: VANOS P00012 code, no intake movement

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Originally Posted by SliM3 View Post
I may have missed this, but did you use brake cleaner to clear the ports in that aluminum distribution block (the one coils mount to)?

Since you have DIS, go to component activation in Expert mode and activate the VANOS valves separately. It will pulse each one for 10 seconds, and you should be able to (faintly) hear the needle valves tapping as they open and close. This will tell you if: (1) the coils are bad, or (2) you've got a sluggish needle valve, and need further cleaning.
Yes I did. I verified I could hear it with a magnet. I did not know DIS has an option to activate it, awesome. I will try again with the solenoid mounted to the block. Just to be sure, I can do this test with the valve body unbolted from the engine head right (I don't think engine needs to be running to supply oil. if anything that will make it harder to hear).

Also, is there a specific orientation to place the block when cleaning/checking it? The 2 times I cleaned it, I just put a magnet on each set of 2 of those metal posts, positioned the block with the pressure regulator?/filter hole side down sitting on the table.
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Old Tue, Mar-14-2017, 06:56:54 PM   #20
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Default Re: VANOS P00012 code, no intake movement

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Originally Posted by Slowmobile View Post
Yes I did. I verified I could hear it with a magnet. I did not know DIS has an option to activate it, awesome. I will try again with the solenoid mounted to the block. Just to be sure, I can do this test with the valve body unbolted from the engine head right (I don't think engine needs to be running to supply oil. if anything that will make it harder to hear).
Yes sir! You just need to have the solenoid pack connected.

On a side note, funny thing, I made the mistake after my build of checking the injectors the same way, then doing the ignition coils. KABAAAAAMMMM! I heard my neighbors saying, "WTF is he doing over there"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slowmobile View Post
Also, is there a specific orientation to place the block when cleaning/checking it? The 2 times I cleaned it, I just put a magnet on each set of 2 of those metal posts, positioned the block with the pressure regulator?/filter hole side down sitting on the table.
Perfect! I did it the same way you described.

Last edited by SliM3; Tue, Mar-14-2017 at 07:01:13 PM.
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Discussing VANOS P00012 code, no intake movement in the E46 M3 (2001-2006) Forum - Engine: S54 - Max Hp: 333 hp at 7,900 rpm / 262 lb/ft at 4,900 rpm
Total Produced: 45,000+ - Years Produced: 2001 to 2006. at BMW M3 Forum.com (E30 M3 | E36 M3 | E46 M3 | E92 M3 | F80/X)