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E36 M3 (1992-1999) {Euro - S50 B32 321hp @ 7400 rpm} {U.S. - S52 B32 240 hp @ 6000 rpm}
Total Produced: 71,212 - Years Produced: 1992 to 1999


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Old Sun, Jan-22-2017, 04:55:15 PM   #31
M_Parallel
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Default Re: Prices on E36 M3s are no joke...

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Originally Posted by twentyseven View Post
It wasn't a "try".. it's an answer. And just because you don't like it, does not make it wrong.

Yes we all know fixed strut bars are better, but hinged is better than nothing. The more points you connect, the stronger the structure will be.

Have you ever owned Dinan products? Or are you just regurgitating what you've spent too much time reading over the years?
I havn't read anything about Dinan. Not a EU thing.

Connecting parts is better than nothing? I agree, to up a certain point. In this case, you might as well connect parts with a piece of string. Means they are connected, but that's it.
All a hinged bar does it connect the shock towers and keeps then easily spaced, however they still allow flex.

Now I understand cheap ebay strutbars, but from Dinan, which looks to be 'reputable', it's a pretty big fail.
Unless it costs $50 max, but I have a feeling it probably a couple times that.
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Old Sun, Jan-22-2017, 07:57:06 PM   #32
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Default Re: Prices on E36 M3s are no joke...

Quote:
Originally Posted by twentyseven View Post
It wasn't a "try".. it's an answer. And just because you don't like it, does not make it wrong.

Yes we all know fixed strut bars are better, but hinged is better than nothing. The more points you connect, the stronger the structure will be.

Have you ever owned Dinan products? Or are you just regurgitating what you've spent too much time reading over the years?
Quote:
Originally Posted by M_Parallel View Post
I havn't read anything about Dinan. Not a EU thing.

Connecting parts is better than nothing? I agree, to up a certain point. In this case, you might as well connect parts with a piece of string. Means they are connected, but that's it.
All a hinged bar does it connect the shock towers and keeps then easily spaced, however they still allow flex.

Now I understand cheap ebay strutbars, but from Dinan, which looks to be 'reputable', it's a pretty big fail.
Unless it costs $50 max, but I have a feeling it probably a couple times that.
I have never bought the whole "hinged strut bars are useless" argument, simply b/c no one has ever supplied empirical evidence to support the claim. I can understand why someone would reason that, but without evidence you are just talking out your ass honestly.

If you look at the direction of forces a mcpherson strut setup experiences when cornering it is pretty clear that a hinged strut bar will be effective at reducing flex. The ultimate question is "how much?" compared to a solid bar. Without evidence, or even just a mathematical analysis taking into account specific variables to explain your theory, you genuinely don't know for a fact one way or the other. Personally, I rather put my trust with the big name tuner than someone's opinion.
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Old Sun, Jan-22-2017, 10:34:38 PM   #33
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Default Re: Prices on E36 M3s are no joke...

It's elementary school easy, it doesn't even need to be proofed. It's like math semester 1, lesson 1.

A strutbar would only remove flex if the towers would flex inward or outwards. Front to back would need a bar at 90 degrees offset of a strutbar.

Now, if you put a hinge in the plain that you are trying to prevent flexing, guess what happens? It flexes.

The only thing a hinged bar does, is keep the distance between towers the same, but it does not prevent parallellogramming.

Ever seen a racecar with a hinged bar? Why BMW's Motorsport bar is not hinged? That is not just because they can.

Front of car, the shocks: | |

Shocks with strut between: |-|

Now with a hinged bar you allow this /-/ and \-\ to happen, since you have a nice hinge there.

Look at the Strong Stut, Sparco strut, AC Schnitzer strut, Hartge strut. All solid bars or the bar is connected to the shockmount in such a way it can't rotate.

And the nice thing about the BMW Motorsportbar is that you can set the preload on it.

Now's I'm the first to admit I wanted the OEM bar just for its looks. I already have the x-brace since it's a cabrio, which will have a way more flexy body to begin with. But I'm no track guy.
If the bar helps, even just a little, then that is a nice bonus, but if it didn't, than that's fine.

So if you want a Dinan bar, just because it looks nice in the engine bay, of course do so.
But I would not recommand it for trackdays/auto-x, etc.
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Old Sun, Jan-22-2017, 10:44:57 PM   #34
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Default Re: Prices on E36 M3s are no joke...

Jesus ****ing christ is another thread seriously going to peoples opinions on strut bars?
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Old Sun, Jan-22-2017, 11:06:57 PM   #35
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Default Re: Prices on E36 M3s are no joke...

lol this is great.

the reality is that early M cars are going for stupid money and the logical step is for newer generations to follow suit.

The e36 & e46 m3 will start go climb steadily and we might even see a spike in prices due to auction houses demanding these cars.
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Old Mon, Jan-23-2017, 03:58:59 AM   #36
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Default Re: Prices on E36 M3s are no joke...

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Originally Posted by M_Parallel View Post
It's elementary school easy, it doesn't even need to be proofed. It's like math semester 1, lesson 1.
Ha I have had enough semesters and lessons to know that its not, actually. Grossly generalizing and excluding several different mechanisms at play in order to arrive at a conclusion doesn't make it right. Not even close man, you are only scratching the surface here.

Probably shouldn't turn this thread into a physics lesson though.
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Old Mon, Jan-23-2017, 04:04:10 AM   #37
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Default Re: Prices on E36 M3s are no joke...

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Originally Posted by RND1 View Post
Haven't seen one at this low mileage or over $30K asking price in quite some time. Sad that it will likely end up in another collection and not be driven.

http://boston.craigslist.org/gbs/cto/5960493013.html
This car has been on/off Autotrader for over a year. Asking price there is $39,800. Nice car no doubt, probably needs to be $25-27k to actually sell but when you're basically the only one with those miles you can ask you want. Someone might just pay it.
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Old Mon, Jan-23-2017, 02:24:13 PM   #38
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Default Re: Prices on E36 M3s are no joke...

LOL

It's an E36, shut up and drive it.

We aren't going to retire on our E36 honey pots.
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Old Mon, Jan-23-2017, 02:51:15 PM   #39
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Default Re: Prices on E36 M3s are no joke...

That silver one has been on and off the Long Island CL since summer.

Here is another that popped up recently.

http://newyork.craigslist.org/mnh/cto/5948496954.html

I don't have it on me right now, but last Roundel has 4 or 5 ads with asking prices in the high-teens.
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Old Mon, Jan-23-2017, 02:57:09 PM   #40
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Default Re: Prices on E36 M3s are no joke...

Quote:
Originally Posted by M_Parallel View Post
It's elementary school easy, it doesn't even need to be proofed. It's like math semester 1, lesson 1.

A strutbar would only remove flex if the towers would flex inward or outwards. Front to back would need a bar at 90 degrees offset of a strutbar.

Now, if you put a hinge in the plain that you are trying to prevent flexing, guess what happens? It flexes.

The only thing a hinged bar does, is keep the distance between towers the same, but it does not prevent parallellogramming.

Ever seen a racecar with a hinged bar? Why BMW's Motorsport bar is not hinged? That is not just because they can.

Front of car, the shocks: | |

Shocks with strut between: |-|

Now with a hinged bar you allow this /-/ and \-\ to happen, since you have a nice hinge there.

Look at the Strong Stut, Sparco strut, AC Schnitzer strut, Hartge strut. All solid bars or the bar is connected to the shockmount in such a way it can't rotate.

And the nice thing about the BMW Motorsportbar is that you can set the preload on it.

Now's I'm the first to admit I wanted the OEM bar just for its looks. I already have the x-brace since it's a cabrio, which will have a way more flexy body to begin with. But I'm no track guy.
If the bar helps, even just a little, then that is a nice bonus, but if it didn't, than that's fine.

So if you want a Dinan bar, just because it looks nice in the engine bay, of course do so.
But I would not recommand it for trackdays/auto-x, etc.
I genuinely hate when you post trying so hard to know when you're talking about it.

LOL @ "parallelogramming" You're thinking 2-dimensionally when the reality is there are additional factors like ackerman, camber curves, and tire deflection that create loads on multiple different axes. Strut towers do not move in unison; nor as much as you think. Think physics - one wheel loads and the other Unloads which creates the opposite effect of whatever it is your brain is imagining. The object is to triangulate the structure to resist movement. And yes a hinged bar does not work as effectively as a fixed bar on some planes, but it is better than nothing - and on a street car, it even has the advantage of being easily removable for servicing.

So i'll stop right here, because given your interpretations there is absolutely zero point to even bother explaining preload. To end the discussion on topic, Dinan bars have a little bit of function to go with their form. Nothing more, nothing less.
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Discussing Prices on E36 M3s are no joke... in the E36 M3 (1992-1999) Forum - {Euro - S50 B32 321hp @ 7400 rpm} {U.S. - S52 B32 240 hp @ 6000 rpm}
Total Produced: 71,212 - Years Produced: 1992 to 1999 at BMW M3 Forum.com (E30 M3 | E36 M3 | E46 M3 | E92 M3 | F80/X)