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E46 M3 (2001-2006) Engine: S54 - Max Hp: 333 hp at 7,900 rpm / 262 lb/ft at 4,900 rpm
Total Produced: 45,000+ - Years Produced: 2001 to 2006.


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Old Sun, Sep-04-2016, 11:03:37 PM   #31
Brian N
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Default Re: ("Subframe") RACP cracking and separation - How common, what models?

Vince are these plates designed to be welded in or bonded via epoxy? I have epoxied plates I wonder if it would be worth trying to remove them for these. Ahh why couldn't I just have waited 4 years for all this stuff to come out haha
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Old Sun, Sep-04-2016, 11:43:51 PM   #32
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Default Re: ("Subframe") RACP cracking and separation - How common, what models?

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Originally Posted by Brian N View Post
Vince are these plates designed to be welded in or bonded via epoxy? I have epoxied plates I wonder if it would be worth trying to remove them for these. Ahh why couldn't I just have waited 4 years for all this stuff to come out haha
For real haha. I have welded TMS plates, so the RACP kit is probably my only option I'll be getting at some point.

Great work Vince! Love the R&D you're providing for this community. Keep up the great work!

Also, I noticed you separated the entire rear end from that sedan. Did you do this just to make it easier to move home or are you using the entire thing and transplanting it to the new car? It was my understanding that if you needed a new floor on an E46 you just needed the RACP floor itself, which you can get here for instance. Care to share additional insight? Very curious

https://www.ecstuning.com/BMW-E46-M3...Trunk/ES67517/
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Old Mon, Sep-05-2016, 07:20:08 AM   #33
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Default ("Subframe") RACP cracking and separation - How common, what models?

Quote:
Originally Posted by WOLFN8TR View Post
Very Nice Vince! Looking forward to seeing the final plates. I will be getting these as well.

Thanks Gary!
I'm pretty excited about seeing the final result myself. Obviously I know what it'll be like, but there's just something about seeing something, that you've planned for a long time, being materialized.

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Originally Posted by Brian N View Post
Vince are these plates designed to be welded in or bonded via epoxy? I have epoxied plates I wonder if it would be worth trying to remove them for these. Ahh why couldn't I just have waited 4 years for all this stuff to come out haha

This application is designed primarily for epoxy/rivet installation. Mostly because I feel there's really no such design available today (at least not that I've seen), and because I really believe it's very beneficial to not have to weld. And thus not have to deal with the heat related consequences associated with welding.

That said, it'll certainly be possible to weld these on as well.

If you currently have TMS style plates epoxied they should come off fairly smoothly with the use of a powerful heat gun.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGenius46M View Post
For real haha. I have welded TMS plates, so the RACP kit is probably my only option I'll be getting at some point.



Great work Vince! Love the R&D you're providing for this community. Keep up the great work!



Also, I noticed you separated the entire rear end from that sedan. Did you do this just to make it easier to move home or are you using the entire thing and transplanting it to the new car? It was my understanding that if you needed a new floor on an E46 you just needed the RACP floor itself, which you can get here for instance. Care to share additional insight? Very curious



https://www.ecstuning.com/BMW-E46-M3...Trunk/ES67517/

Thanks for your encouragement, I really appreciate that!

I went looking for a used (but undamaged) RACP due to cost constraints. Initially I planned on separating it from the donor car at the junk yard, but as I got a good deal on the whole rear end, and it was easier and faster to remove, I opted for this alternative.

The complete rear end (from a sedan) will in addition also allow me to:
• First hand verify that the kit fits a sedan
• Develop one or two additional products I've been planning for

I'll share more on the latter as I get closer to that project.

Thanks for asking BTW!



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Old Mon, Sep-05-2016, 07:49:56 AM   #34
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Default Re: ("Subframe") RACP cracking and separation - How common, what models?

Amazing work Vince. Thanks for putting all this info out there. I'll be getting a RACP kit and the SMG pump relocation kit sometime soon.
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Old Mon, Sep-05-2016, 02:35:37 PM   #35
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Default Re: ("Subframe") RACP cracking and separation - How common, what models?

Vince, I always love following your adventures on this chassis. Looking forward to whatever creative fixes and improvements you come up with next. Keep up the great work.
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Old Tue, Sep-06-2016, 03:34:53 AM   #36
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Default Re: ("Subframe") RACP cracking and separation - How common, what models?

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Originally Posted by VinceSE2 View Post
This application is designed primarily for epoxy/rivet installation. Mostly because I feel there's really no such design available today (at least not that I've seen), and because I really believe it's very beneficial to not have to weld. And thus not have to deal with the heat related consequences associated with welding.

That said, it'll certainly be possible to weld these on as well.

If you currently have TMS style plates epoxied they should come off fairly smoothly with the use of a powerful heat gun.
Hmmm... I may have to pick this up in the future as well when I redo my subframe reforncoment for the 3rd time.

I went with epoxy the first time around for the reasons you stated above, but your kit covers much much more surface area than the other plates on the market. I just hope it isn't too hard to get my current plates off! Yours look beautiful especially with all the folds you added to get around all the contours of the subframe. This paired with your other solutions will really be the ultimate solutions I think.

So excited
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Old Tue, Sep-06-2016, 03:51:10 AM   #37
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Default Re: ("Subframe") RACP cracking and separation - How common, what models?

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Originally Posted by VinceSE2 View Post
This application is designed primarily for epoxy/rivet installation. Mostly because I feel there's really no such design available today (at least not that I've seen), and because I really believe it's very beneficial to not have to weld. And thus not have to deal with the heat related consequences associated with welding.
This is great! I am going to wait for these. I like how it covers a lot of surface area, this is a good design! Thank you for doing this!
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Old Tue, Sep-06-2016, 10:54:11 AM   #38
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Default Re: ("Subframe") RACP cracking and separation - How common, what models?

What would you recommend for those of us with welded TMS plates? I'm assuming the RACP bar would be the best option?
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Old Tue, Sep-06-2016, 02:47:42 PM   #39
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Default Re: ("Subframe") RACP cracking and separation - How common, what models?

Vince, I'm definitely going to get these and pair them with your bar/gusset kit. Awesome work. It's a lot of fun watching your dev work in progress.

I have a question that may be obvious, but I'm new here so I'll ask it... Would any hairline cracks/ broken spot welds all need to be repaired via welding before your kit(s) are applied?
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Old Tue, Sep-06-2016, 06:07:12 PM   #40
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Default Re: ("Subframe") RACP cracking and separation - How common, what models?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 0-60Motorsports View Post
Amazing work Vince. Thanks for putting all this info out there. I'll be getting a RACP kit and the SMG pump relocation kit sometime soon.

Thanks!
I'm sorry the SMG relocation keeps getting on the back burner, but I'll get there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalahari View Post
Vince, I always love following your adventures on this chassis. Looking forward to whatever creative fixes and improvements you come up with next. Keep up the great work.

Thanks! I have a couple of things I think could be exciting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian N View Post
Hmmm... I may have to pick this up in the future as well when I redo my subframe reforncoment for the 3rd time.



I went with epoxy the first time around for the reasons you stated above, but your kit covers much much more surface area than the other plates on the market. I just hope it isn't too hard to get my current plates off! Yours look beautiful especially with all the folds you added to get around all the contours of the subframe. This paired with your other solutions will really be the ultimate solutions I think.



So excited

Thanks Brian!
We'll work out a nice package deal for you!

Quote:
Originally Posted by LSB FTW View Post
This is great! I am going to wait for these. I like how it covers a lot of surface area, this is a good design! Thank you for doing this!

Thank you very much!

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGenius46M View Post
What would you recommend for those of us with welded TMS plates? I'm assuming the RACP bar would be the best option?

Yes, the VinceBar with the gusset cups will still work fine!

The way I see it, plates are for repairing a cracked RACP, while the VinceBar kit is for avoiding getting cracks and popped spot welds in the first place (or after repairs).

Quote:
Originally Posted by ninertriplezero View Post
Vince, I'm definitely going to get these and pair them with your bar/gusset kit. Awesome work. It's a lot of fun watching your dev work in progress.

I have a question that may be obvious, but I'm new here so I'll ask it... Would any hairline cracks/ broken spot welds all need to be repaired via welding before your kit(s) are applied?

Thanks for the encouragement!

Good question, the answer is in no way obvious.
IMHO, any and all cracks should first of all be stop drilled.

If the hairline cracks are completely covered by the plates I argue they won't need to be welded. The epoxy and the plates should be enough.

But if there are cracks outside of the plates perimeters, or there are major cracks, welding (or potentially larger plates) could be necessary.

I'm sure there are other opinions, but that's how I see it.



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Discussing ("Subframe") RACP cracking and separation - How common, what models? in the E46 M3 (2001-2006) Forum - Engine: S54 - Max Hp: 333 hp at 7,900 rpm / 262 lb/ft at 4,900 rpm
Total Produced: 45,000+ - Years Produced: 2001 to 2006. at BMW M3 Forum.com (E30 M3 | E36 M3 | E46 M3 | E92 M3 | F80/X)