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E46 M3 (2001-2006) Engine: S54 - Max Hp: 333 hp at 7,900 rpm / 262 lb/ft at 4,900 rpm
Total Produced: 45,000+ - Years Produced: 2001 to 2006.


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Old Sat, Aug-13-2016, 01:52:01 AM   #11
M3 dude
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Default Re: ("Subframe") RACP cracking and separation - How common, what models?

yeah we've developed a weld in GTR bar for use in mine. we've also shipped a few of them out. there's a handful of m3 in australia running around with them now.

because i didnt really care anymore about boot space (it was space or having the car rip itself apart) i've welded the bar in. since its made out of chromoly, it doesnt weigh much at all.
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Old Sat, Aug-13-2016, 02:08:17 AM   #12
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Default Re: ("Subframe") RACP cracking and separation - How common, what models?

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Originally Posted by TboneM3 View Post
IMO, the only Mason product worth buying is the full rear x brace (which includes floor bar and shock tower bar) or the GTR bar which connects at the same points. Both are right under $800 I believe.

Vince's front mounts are also a great idea and are the only front solution that I'm aware of.

I'm leaning towards Mason because I'm about 10 minutes away. Shipping kinda kills Vince's package for me, personally.
Do you know if there are any benefits of running the GTR bar versus the xbrace?
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Old Sat, Aug-13-2016, 02:05:27 PM   #13
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Default Re: ("Subframe") RACP cracking and separation - How common, what models?

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Originally Posted by silvergray545 View Post
In your opinion, is the xbrace worth the extra money over the standard subframe support kit they offer?


That's a good question, I had almost forgot Mason has that option as well.

With the caveat that I don't recall the price difference here's my personal opinion.
If your main concern is RACP load relief, and you're not too concerned about adding torsional rigidity (the shock tower does supply some of that on its own), then I'd say no, it's not worth the extra money.

But IMHO, if you've already sacrificed that much of the trunk usability (the shock tower bar and the lower RACP cross bar), why not add the x-brace as well. If it's within your budget of course.


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Old Sat, Aug-13-2016, 02:11:05 PM   #14
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Default ("Subframe") RACP cracking and separation - How common, what models?

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Originally Posted by Flow View Post
Thank you vince for the very informative post.

I need to reinforce my car really bad.







Northern Europe is mercy-less for chassis


Thanks Florian!

I didn't mean to scare anyone, I just felt I'd share my findings. It's pretty amazing (in a bad way) that this is so common.
And even worse that most dealers, and independent shops, don't even know where to look!
I'm pretty sure the latter is why this is not believed to be as common as it is.

Please let me know when you plan on doing your car, I still owe you some collar nuts and fasteners.

Vince

And yes, the amount of salt used here in the winters makes for a brutal rust situation!!


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Old Sat, Aug-13-2016, 02:17:10 PM   #15
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Default Re: ("Subframe") RACP cracking and separation - How common, what models?

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Originally Posted by forzanerazzurri View Post
I think based on all the evidence and given how old the cars are getting its safe to assume you have cracking until proven otherwise. Its just crazy that something this serious was missed in the engineering and development of the car. I mean the ability for the RACP to withstand the demands of the car should be a pretty low level requirement for any car company.


I completely agree!
It's bad enough that the M3's, and the torquey diesels, have trouble. But when not even the entry level models hold up its an absolute shame IMHO.

I believe it's due to cost cutting. Unfortunately, just like Bob Lutz said, the bean counters have too much to say these days...


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Old Sat, Aug-13-2016, 02:23:11 PM   #16
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Default Re: ("Subframe") RACP cracking and separation - How common, what models?

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Originally Posted by TboneM3 View Post
IMO, the only Mason product worth buying is the full rear x brace (which includes floor bar and shock tower bar) or the GTR bar which connects at the same points. Both are right under $800 I believe.



Vince's front mounts are also a great idea and are the only front solution that I'm aware of.



I'm leaning towards Mason because I'm about 10 minutes away. Shipping kinda kills Vince's package for me, personally.


Thanks for recognizing my front gusset cups! Shipping them and the extended studs and accessories is pretty cheap.

If you don't have someone to share shipping with (two kits ship for a total of $155), and you live close to Mason (no shipping cost I assume), I completely understand that shipping from Sweden is considerably unfavorable. I don't blame you at all.

Vince


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Old Sun, Aug-14-2016, 01:50:57 AM   #17
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Default Re: ("Subframe") RACP cracking and separation - How common, what models?

How much is just the front mount kit (epoxy/rivet) shipped to southern california if you don't mind my asking Vince?
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Old Tue, Aug-16-2016, 08:56:34 PM   #18
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Default Re: ("Subframe") RACP cracking and separation - How common, what models?

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Originally Posted by TboneM3 View Post
How much is just the front mount kit (epoxy/rivet) shipped to southern california if you don't mind my asking Vince?


Sorry about the late response, but I'm catching up on things.

For just the components you mention it's $175 shipped.

This is shipped in an international flat rate ($30) box that'll fit more stuff at the max weight 2kg.

So you could also get the hole saw, it's bore and the drilling guide rod (as shown in the picture below with the weld style gusset pipes) along at the same shipping rate. Or get two front kits and share the shipping with a friend.




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Old Thu, Aug-18-2016, 03:49:49 PM   #19
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Default ("Subframe") RACP cracking and separation - How common, what models?

So today I went back to the junk yard and collected the rear end I'll be using as a development platform. My son also joined, making it a father/son happening.

He ended up removing a front seat from a VOLVO to be used as his gaming chair. Pretty cool initiative if you ask me!

This what it looked like when we arrived with all our stuff a rainy morning.



And 3,5 hours later we had the rear end separated from the donor car.



This is what we left behind.







There's quite a lot of metal in the door sills



And here's what we took home.








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Old Thu, Aug-18-2016, 06:18:29 PM   #20
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Default Re: ("Subframe") RACP cracking and separation - How common, what models?

haha thats awesome Vince you are a crazy one!
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Discussing ("Subframe") RACP cracking and separation - How common, what models? in the E46 M3 (2001-2006) Forum - Engine: S54 - Max Hp: 333 hp at 7,900 rpm / 262 lb/ft at 4,900 rpm
Total Produced: 45,000+ - Years Produced: 2001 to 2006. at BMW M3 Forum.com (E30 M3 | E36 M3 | E46 M3 | E92 M3 | F80/X)