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E36 M3 (1992-1999) {Euro - S50 B32 321hp @ 7400 rpm} {U.S. - S52 B32 240 hp @ 6000 rpm}
Total Produced: 71,212 - Years Produced: 1992 to 1999


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Old Thu, Mar-16-2017, 10:26:24 AM   #121
egebhardt
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Default Re: 98 M3 Silver Sedan - Refresh Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by tripitz View Post
When the shop redid the front end of my engine (Dr. Vanos, new chain, guides, and upper tensioner) they dropped the oil pan only partially. The engine was held up by the subframe (as there is no hook). I have a pic of it in the shop as they were working on it and it was clearly supported from underneath.
Ok. Thanks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mitch500 View Post
That's because they probably cut your oil pan gasket and inserted it in 2 pieces. Some places do this to save on the time of dropping the subframe just for a pan gasket. Is it right or wrong? You be the judge, it's also easier on the wallet that way.
Yikes!

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Originally Posted by Evtron View Post
Bolt your subframe back up, you need to do the timing cover first. Bentley specifies replacing your oil pan gasket after installing the timing cover. If you do your oil pan gasket first you'll never get the timing cover to seal properly.
It looks like you are right. Are you referring to what I quoted below?
On page 117-6, it says:
'Camshaft timing chain removal on 6-cyl engines requires that you remove the oil pan by raising the engine or lowering the front crossmember.'
On page 117-11 is says:
'1. Install primary timing chain'
'2. Using new gaskets and coolant pipe O-ring, install lower timing chain cover.'
'3. Install oil pan using new gasket.'

Here's what I can do. I'll put the oil pan gasket in first and bolt it up super loose. Then get the subframe back up with the motor mounts. Then do the timing cover. Then go back and snug-up the oil pan. I can't have the subframe down and the timing cover off at the same time, obviously.

I managed to get the oil pan off last night. It's still 5 days until I get the oil pan gasket so I have time to think about all this. TBPS is so dam slow but I wanted a BMW set of gaskets and I didn't want to bother the stealership.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg oil pan (1).JPG (262.4 KB, 24 views)
File Type: jpg oil pan (4).JPG (261.2 KB, 18 views)
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Last edited by egebhardt; Tue, Jun-13-2017 at 12:00:05 PM.
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Old Thu, Mar-16-2017, 01:05:34 PM   #122
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Default Re: 98 M3 Silver Sedan - Refresh Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by egebhardt View Post
Are you referring to what I quoted below?
On page 117-6, it says:
'Camshaft timing chain removal on 6-cyl engines requires that you remove the oil pan by raising the engine or lowering the front crossmember.'
On page 117-11 is says:
'1. Install primary timing chain'
'2. Using new gaskets and coolant pipe O-ring, install lower timing chain cover.'
'3. Install oil pan using new gasket.'

Here's what I can do. I'll put the oil pan gasket in first and bolt it up super loose. Then get the subframe back up with the motor mounts. Then do the timing cover. Then go back and snug-up the oil pan. I can't have the subframe down and the timing cover off at the same time, obviously.

I managed to get the oil pan off last night. It's still 5 days until I get the oil pan gasket so I have time to think about all this. TBPS is so dam slow but I wanted a BMW set of gaskets and I didn't want to bother the stealership. I'm not driving a 2017 M6 so I might get pushed to the back of the line.
That's exactly what I'm referring to.

The problem here lies with the application of RTV on the corners of the block, which seals the joint of the timing cover/block against the oil pan gasket.

Hypothetically if you were to put a bead of RTV on the joints, install the oil pan gasket, then remove the timing cover, you've destroyed that RTV seal. I highly doubt you'll be able to seal it again correctly by re-applying RTV to the bottom of the timing cover. Does that make sense? It might work, but there's enough risk there to prevent me from going that route.

EDIT: It will be difficult to get a good bead of RTV with the oil pan loosely installed, but perhaps not impossible.

If I were you, I would use your old subframe bolts to reinstall the subframe and reattach the motor mounts. 8 fasteners, should take you 10 minutes tops. You can leave your oil pan off, and you don't have to connect your steering giubo. With the engine supported properly from underneath, knock out the timing cover business, then go back down and finish off the oil pan gasket.

Good luck man, it's an interesting problem. Personally I think the minor inconvenience of temporarily reattaching your subframe is worth the peace of mind of not having to do this all over again because the RTV didn't seal properly.
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Old Thu, Mar-16-2017, 03:26:38 PM   #123
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Default Re: 98 M3 Silver Sedan - Refresh Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Evtron View Post
That's exactly what I'm referring to.
If I were you, I would use your old subframe bolts to reinstall the subframe and reattach the motor mounts. 8 fasteners, should take you 10 minutes tops. You can leave your oil pan off, and you don't have to connect your steering giubo. With the engine supported properly from underneath, knock out the timing cover business, then go back down and finish off the oil pan gasket.
properly.
Ah. That sounds like the right thing to do. 10 minutes for you maybe! The (4) driver side engine mount bolts will take a 20 mins alone. The front of the pan might not get low enough with the subframe in to get a nice bead of RTV in there. In any event, the oil pan should go on last. Thanks!

Last edited by egebhardt; Tue, Jun-13-2017 at 12:02:03 PM.
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Old Thu, Mar-16-2017, 04:47:35 PM   #124
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Default Re: 98 M3 Silver Sedan - Refresh Thread

No problem
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Old Fri, Mar-17-2017, 04:18:44 PM   #125
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Default Re: 98 M3 Silver Sedan - Refresh Thread

I got the subframe back up (no pan), new motor mounts mounted, valve cover off, timing blocks on, flywheel pin in, Vanos removed and I started cleaning the oil pan. 2 hours. I'm sure someone can do that in half the time. The next trick is to remove the timing cover. There are 3 bolts in the head that hold the timing cover on (see red arrows). Those require removal of the intake and exhaust gears and the secondary tensioner between them. That will be next.
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File Type: jpg head.JPG (438.2 KB, 27 views)

Last edited by egebhardt; Sat, Mar-18-2017 at 12:03:51 AM.
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Old Sun, Mar-19-2017, 09:43:17 AM   #126
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Default Re: 98 M3 Silver Sedan - Refresh Thread

Update:
The Bentley briefly mentions the 2 steel pins in the timing cover (see points A in the last image below). I had to knock those out with a drift pin. Since you can't swing the hammer even though the radiator was out. It took an hour of light tapping, then finding them once I bumped them through.

I removed the (14) 10mm bolts that hold the timing cover on. The hard coolant line coming into the back of the timing cover is really stuck due to the lump of corrosion that built-up between the 2 O-rings over 19 years. The steel coolant hose is only pushed in with 2 rubber O-rings holding it in but it seemed bolted in at first. I eventually wiggled it away to get enough space so I could wedge a piece of plastic (bicycle tire lever) in near the coolant line between the cover and the block. I then pried using the bottom of the timing cover as a lever. It took an hour of prying and wiggling carefully but it finally came off. I'm soaking that inner diameter location on the timing cover with PBlaster now to get the black corrosion out of there so the pipe will slide on easier and come off easier if anyone ever has to get back in (see point B in the 3rd image below). The S52 in US 36Ms have the insert and not the protruding pipe.

I'm now as deep as I'm going to go for this project so I finally reached the 1/2-way point. For re-installing the timing cover, tap the steel pins back into the timing cover to the point where they are protruding .5mm out the other side. Basically, get them so they will locate on the block. Once the cover is bolted on, tap the pins back in. They must be there for a reason but IDK why yet. My timing cover gaskets come tomorrow.

I found the oil pump nut to be on nice and tight. I took it off, cleaned it good, drenched it in red loctite, and put it back on. Reverse threads of course.

I got a bunch of carb cleaner and engine foam for cleanup. Engine foam degreaser doesn't do squat and I'm kicking myself now for not buying some SimpleGreen and making a bath-tub for parts cleaning (Braymond trick). Also, for some reason, I couldn't get the a/c compressor bracket off. I thought I found and loosened all the 13mm bolts but it wouldn't budge. There must be another one. The compressor had 4 more bolts and those 4 bolts wanted some crazy amount of force to come loose. I could feel them twisting. Yikes! I stopped because I don't need another job right now, besides, that area is relatively exposed so I could get in there later.

All the while the oil pan is off, the engine drips oil and coolant. Just be ready for that. I eventually got some cardboard down with 2 drip pans for at night otherwise I have to mop up a river of stuff running to the lowest spot.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg cleaners.JPG (291.3 KB, 18 views)
File Type: jpg timing cover off.JPG (495.3 KB, 29 views)
File Type: jpg bentley timing cover.jpg (52.4 KB, 19 views)
File Type: jpg red loctite.JPG (220.4 KB, 21 views)

Last edited by egebhardt; Tue, Jun-13-2017 at 06:03:51 PM.
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Old Tue, Mar-21-2017, 04:47:46 PM   #127
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Default Re: 98 M3 Silver Sedan - Refresh Thread

Update:
It always helps when TBPS delivers the package to your current house, not your old house. I lost an hour there. TBPS refunded the shipping amount upon submitting a request online. No phone contact there.

I managed to get the timing cover and VANOS back on last night. This YouTube video was awesome. By then, The next step is to turn the crank 2 rotations and make sure the timing is correct.
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File Type: jpg timing cover new gaskets.JPG (428.5 KB, 22 views)

Last edited by egebhardt; Wed, Mar-22-2017 at 05:58:25 PM.
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Old Wed, Mar-22-2017, 04:51:52 PM   #128
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Default Re: 98 M3 Silver Sedan - Refresh Thread

Update:
I checked the timing after 2 crank rotations and it was spot on. Job Done! (Edd China Wheeler Dealers reference).

Getting the oil pan back on was the next task. Not easy. I had to re-drop the subframe, replace the steering guibo (because I was there) and put RTV on (4) spots of the block. Then hold the pan up while getting 2 bolts started. The hardest parts is getting the 4 bolts in below the driver side motor mount arm. "Really? You expect me to get 4 bolts in at that angle and torqued to a proper spec?" That took 45 mins alone but the rest went in fine. I used OE BMW gaskets and O-rings in this project. I'm guessing cheaper stuff might be fine but I may never know and I'd love to clean all that cosmoline off but that's a job for another day.

I hope to get the Valve Cover on tonight then leave the rest for next week or later. I'm going to ski Bridger Bowl in Montana over the weekend. It's faster to fly to Montana than it is to drive to Tahoe from the Bay Area. Tons of people in California with more to come, unless the economy tanks again like in 2000 and 2008.
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File Type: jpg oil pan up.JPG (371.7 KB, 17 views)

Last edited by egebhardt; Thu, Apr-13-2017 at 06:22:32 PM.
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Old Wed, Mar-22-2017, 05:30:58 PM   #129
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Default Re: 98 M3 Silver Sedan - Refresh Thread

Great work! Seems like you didn't waste much time with this job.
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Old Wed, Mar-22-2017, 11:52:24 PM   #130
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Default Re: 98 M3 Silver Sedan - Refresh Thread

you're moving right along! It will be back on the road in no time.
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Discussing 98 M3 Silver Sedan - Refresh Thread in the E36 M3 (1992-1999) Forum - {Euro - S50 B32 321hp @ 7400 rpm} {U.S. - S52 B32 240 hp @ 6000 rpm}
Total Produced: 71,212 - Years Produced: 1992 to 1999 at BMW M3 Forum.com (E30 M3 | E36 M3 | E46 M3 | E92 M3 | F80/X)