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E46 M3 (2001-2006) Engine: S54 - Max Hp: 333 hp at 7,900 rpm / 262 lb/ft at 4,900 rpm
Total Produced: 45,000+ - Years Produced: 2001 to 2006.


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Old Tue, Feb-13-2018, 05:16:24 AM   #51
terraphantm
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Default Re: Still looking to add another, Anyone tried an m6 manual, v10?

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Originally Posted by Obioban View Post
Rod bearings that fail by lottery, not time/use.
Main bearings that fail by lottery, not time/use.
Vanos failure without lockdowns
idrive failure
Smg failure
Fiber optic issues throughout the chassis.
Sunroof leaks

And many routine services are less work if you remove the engine :P
First 3 are definitely true and are the main reason I'd never own an E60 M5 (and I don't think the VANOS can even be locked down that well)
Idrive failing doesn't seem to be a big issue, especially with LCI models (and can be dealt with cheaply nowadays anyway)
Get a 6MT
Fiber optics breaks aren't really an issue as long as you're not manhandling harnesses
Haven't experienced the last one personally, but just get Challenge's roof
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Old Tue, Feb-13-2018, 05:40:37 AM   #52
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Default Re: Still looking to add another, Anyone tried an m6 manual, v10?



The E60 is majestic though with a drop & some custom wheels - admittedly so my wheels are over-the-top but that's what floats my boat lol


I'll mention again, these and the M6 will leave you poor & frustrated maintenance wise. I own my E46 just to have some reliable ///M fun on the weekends. The M5 is just a garage queen these days...


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Old Tue, Feb-13-2018, 07:02:28 AM   #53
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Default Re: Still looking to add another, Anyone tried an m6 manual, v10?

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Originally Posted by Obioban View Post
Rod bearings that fail by lottery, not time/use.
Main bearings that fail by lottery, not time/use.
Vanos failure without lockdowns
idrive failure
Smg failure
Fiber optic issues throughout the chassis.
Sunroof leaks

And many routine services are less work if you remove the engine :P
While I don't dispute much of this list, I think you may be slightly overstating the commonality of these issues.

Rod Bearings - can track via Blackstone, like the E46 - do by 75k to avoid issues
Main Bearings - this is a new one for me, any more info?
VANOS tends to go due to solenoids - there are several vendors now producing their own to fix the horrendous BMW original cost ($1700/each x4)
iDrive...well **** that thing, I've got nothing there
SMG - definitely my biggest area of concern, but preventatively replacing the pump every 50k seems to greatly improve reliability
Fibre - would love to learn more, haven't heard of this one before
Sunroof - every E60 was impacted, but definitely an area of concern if I were parking under trees frequently
Throttle actuators - **** these things. You can rebuild them with metal internals though for a lifetime fix for ~$800/each x2

Don't get me wrong, my ownership experience is 85% joy, 15% pure terror. I doubt I'll keep this car forever, but it's a fantastic piece of kit if you're in the market for a truly great N/A engine.
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Old Tue, Feb-13-2018, 11:12:08 AM   #54
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Default Re: Still looking to add another, Anyone tried an m6 manual, v10?

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Originally Posted by T-Rex View Post
While I don't dispute much of this list, I think you may be slightly overstating the commonality of these issues.

Rod Bearings - can track via Blackstone, like the E46 - do by 75k to avoid issues
Main Bearings - this is a new one for me, any more info?
VANOS tends to go due to solenoids - there are several vendors now producing their own to fix the horrendous BMW original cost ($1700/each x4)
iDrive...well **** that thing, I've got nothing there
SMG - definitely my biggest area of concern, but preventatively replacing the pump every 50k seems to greatly improve reliability
Fibre - would love to learn more, haven't heard of this one before
Sunroof - every E60 was impacted, but definitely an area of concern if I were parking under trees frequently
Throttle actuators - **** these things. You can rebuild them with metal internals though for a lifetime fix for ~$800/each x2

Don't get me wrong, my ownership experience is 85% joy, 15% pure terror. I doubt I'll keep this car forever, but it's a fantastic piece of kit if you're in the market for a truly great N/A engine.
The s65/s85 bearings have two failure modes:
1) wear, which occur by high RPM usage (which replacement helps with)
2) lottery, which can just happen at 10 miles, 100 miles, 1000 miles, 10,000 miles, 100,000 miles, etc.

AFAIK there's only one aftermarket vanos solenoid on the market, and it's been on the market for ~2 weeks-- I think we're at least a year out on knowing if that's a worthwhile part. But, yes... the stock vanos solenoids have a ~60,000-80,000 mile lifespan, there's 4 of them, and they cost $1700 each. But, there's also the vanos pump failure :P

SMG pumps seem to mitigate its issues, but those are expensive and getting more expensive... and it's not a box that can be converted to 6mt.

Fiber optics-- as terra said, it fails if the harness gets man handled.

I forgot about the throttle actuators, but I'd do the perma fix on them for sure.

I completely agree its an amazing driving experience. The alu chassis and V10 combine to make it the best driving M5 of all time, imo. I've thought about getting one many times... I just don't think I can afford the experience without hating myself.
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Old Tue, Feb-13-2018, 01:39:16 PM   #55
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Default Re: Still looking to add another, Anyone tried an m6 manual, v10?

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Originally Posted by umichchris View Post


The E60 is majestic though with a drop & some custom wheels - admittedly so my wheels are over-the-top but that's what floats my boat lol


I'll mention again, these and the M6 will leave you poor & frustrated maintenance wise. I own my E46 just to have some reliable ///M fun on the weekends. The M5 is just a garage queen these days...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
No offense or anything, but that's what I don't get. Why own a 4 door saloon as a garage queen/weekender.. Not that it isn't a special experience, but the purpose of the M5 is to be a daily rocketship/people hauler imo. If you have the means though...
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Old Tue, Feb-13-2018, 01:46:54 PM   #56
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Default Re: Still looking to add another, Anyone tried an m6 manual, v10?

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No offense or anything, but that's what I don't get. Why own a 4 door saloon as a garage queen/weekender.. Not that it isn't a special experience, but the purpose of the M5 is to be a daily rocketship/people hauler imo. If you have the means though...
Yeah, that's how I end up with the e39 M5, even though I prefer the driving dynamics of the e60. The e39 is more comfortable, has a bigger back seat, nicer interior, has reasonable range, and isn't a ticking time bomb. We pile miles onto it without a second thought (about to roll over 170,000 miles in it). I couldn't afford to do that on the e60 M5, and its too big of a car to be an exciting weekend driving experience car or a track car.

I went on a road trip with a friend a while back, me in an e39 M5, him in an e60 M5... and without exaggeration we were having to stop for gas while the e39 was still at a half tank (because the e60 was dry). The smaller tank combined with BMW's worst ever fuel economy really makes the range annoyingly low when trying to cover ground.

... though when we traded cars, man is the s85 wonderful
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Last edited by Obioban; Tue, Feb-13-2018 at 02:44:02 PM.
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Old Tue, Feb-13-2018, 01:50:56 PM   #57
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Default Re: Still looking to add another, Anyone tried an m6 manual, v10?

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Originally Posted by Obioban View Post
Yeah, that's how I end up with the e39 M5, even though I prefer the driving dynamics of the e60. The e39 is more comfortable, has a bigger back seat, nicer interior, has reasonable range, and isn't a ticking time bomb. We pile miles onto it without a second thought (about to roll over 170,000 miles in it). I couldn't afford to do that on the e60 M5, and its too big of a car to be an exciting weekend driving experience car or a track car.

I went on a road trip with a friend a while back, me in an e39 M5, him in an e60 M5... and without exaggeration we were having to stop for gas while the e39 was still at a half tank (because the e60 was dry). The smaller tank combined with BMW's worst ever fuel economy really makes the range annoyingly low when trying to cover ground.

... though we we traded cars, man is the s85 wonderful
Range is by far the biggest constant annoyance with this car.

...so what you're saying is an S85 E39 would be perfect
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Old Tue, Feb-13-2018, 01:58:24 PM   #58
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Default Re: Still looking to add another, Anyone tried an m6 manual, v10?

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Range is by far the biggest constant annoyance with this car.

...so what you're saying is an S85 E39 would be perfect
An s85 e46 would be a better combo, imo-- then you have a legitimate weekend/track car that doesn't need to be able to hold up to thousands of DD commute miles at a reasonable cost.

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Old Tue, Feb-13-2018, 02:33:31 PM   #59
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Default Re: Still looking to add another, Anyone tried an m6 manual, v10?

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Originally Posted by Obioban View Post
Yeah, that's how I end up with the e39 M5, even though I prefer the driving dynamics of the e60. The e39 is more comfortable, has a bigger back seat, nicer interior, has reasonable range, and isn't a ticking time bomb. We pile miles onto it without a second thought (about to roll over 170,000 miles in it). I couldn't afford to do that on the e60 M5, and its too big of a car to be an exciting weekend driving experience car or a track car.

I went on a road trip with a friend a while back, me in an e39 M5, him in an e60 M5... and without exaggeration we were having to stop for gas while the e39 was still at a half tank (because the e60 was dry). The smaller tank combined with BMW's worst ever fuel economy really makes the range annoyingly low when trying to cover ground.

... though we we traded cars, man is the s85 wonderful
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Originally Posted by T-Rex View Post
Range is by far the biggest constant annoyance with this car.

...so what you're saying is an S85 E39 would be perfect
The e92 is similarly annoying on fill ups vs. the e46. I swear my dad has to fill up every 3 days or so on his regular commute
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Old Tue, Feb-13-2018, 04:55:12 PM   #60
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Default Re: Still looking to add another, Anyone tried an m6 manual, v10?

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An s85 e46 would be a better combo, imo-- then you have a legitimate weekend/track car that doesn't need to be able to hold up to thousands of DD commute miles at a reasonable cost.
Oh god, don't get that idea going in my head again. So much want

If the S65 swap is ever "templatized" I think I will have to pick up another E46 to do that to.

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The e92 is similarly annoying on fill ups vs. the e46. I swear my dad has to fill up every 3 days or so on his regular commute
I drive my car two days a week, and can honestly say I average 3 tanks of gas a month. It's absurd.
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Discussing Still looking to add another, Anyone tried an m6 manual, v10? in the E46 M3 (2001-2006) Forum - Engine: S54 - Max Hp: 333 hp at 7,900 rpm / 262 lb/ft at 4,900 rpm
Total Produced: 45,000+ - Years Produced: 2001 to 2006. at BMW M3 Forum.com (E30 M3 | E36 M3 | E46 M3 | E92 M3 | F80/X)