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M3 Track: Racing and DE Best mod for speed is learning to get the most out of what you currently have. Tracks and DE's is the place to start!


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Old Sun, Nov-14-2010, 02:24:23 AM   #1
delirium45
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Default E46 M3 NASA TTS/GTS dyno

Okay, so as my car begins its cage build i am getting preliminary numbers on weight before and i am estimating the after weight. i am expecting dry weight to be in at 2,912 lbs and comp weight at 3,075 lbs currently.

so, at 3,075 i need a dyno pull as low as 279 RWHP to be within 11:1 for GTS3... i'm guessing my motor will pull a little higher... any reasonable guesses as to what it might be ?

i have an AFE intake with streamline elbow, evosport headers with 400cell cats in section-1, merge to single 3" pipe aft of the H-crossover in what was section-2. no a/c. underdrive pulleys on water and power-steering pumps. and a i removed the clutch fan from the water pump pulley. otherwise stock running TWS 10w60 and standard redline trans and diff fluids.
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Old Sun, Nov-14-2010, 11:07:11 AM   #2
magnetic1
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Garrett, your power is probably going to come in more (290-300). That is the range I am seeing in our region. Those cars are ballasted up to about 3300#s.

You might be able to use a restrictor plate or use tuning to pull down the top end power...
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Old Sun, Nov-14-2010, 04:37:48 PM   #3
delirium45
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hmmm, this is the hard decision i'll have to make this winter... detune would help with heat... ballast could more easily be removed for non-comp events...
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Old Sun, Nov-14-2010, 06:44:10 PM   #4
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I think you will end up being a little heaver then that when your done unless you are doing body panels and such. Remember unless you do a fuel cell or add a pick up these cars have pick up problems at 1/8 of a tank so gotta add that in cause you can't run without it. Mine is min 3125. Your intake is better then mine, headers about the same but I am uncorked, pulleys are the same and I pull 284hp.
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Old Sun, Nov-14-2010, 08:19:05 PM   #5
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How are you going to detune it? Who can do that for you and what software is available to do that?

While that may be the most elegant approach, it's probably the hardest as far as finding a competent tuner who has the tools to successfully do that.

You're better off adding ballast most likely...
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Old Sun, Nov-14-2010, 08:58:34 PM   #6
delirium45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fandango Racing View Post
I think you will end up being a little heaver then that when your done unless you are doing body panels and such. Remember unless you do a fuel cell or add a pick up these cars have pick up problems at 1/8 of a tank so gotta add that in cause you can't run without it. Mine is min 3125. Your intake is better then mine, headers about the same but I am uncorked, pulleys are the same and I pull 284hp.
well the car weighed in at 2,720 with front and rear glass in and 1/3 tank fuel and heavy OEM rollers (plus entire working driveline)... so i really think the car will be under 3,000 lbs dry in comp trim.

what i plan to add back are ~180 lbs worth of cage, padding and netting, ~25 lbs of driver seat and mounting, ~20 lbs of dash, ~5 lbs of belts, cf roof panel and lexan rear quarter windows ~2 lbs, fire supp ~15?? lbs, ~3 lbs of data aq. will reduce weight with track wheels maybe 10 lbs.

dry = 2,702 + 240 = 2,960 lbs

driver + suit + hans + helmet = 165 lbs
fuel at lowest = 1/4 tank = 26 lbs

comp = 2,960 + 191 = 3,151 lbs

again, all this is speculative at this point but i really cannot see the car being heavier than 3,000 lbs (dry) on a bad day. let me put it another way, the car will not be more than 3,000 lbs that is a design goal.


Josh, as far as detuning, i haven't really approached this topic yet, but there are competent tuners out there (albeit pricey) that can do it, easiest ways that i can think of would be to reduce intake or reduce RPM limit.
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Old Mon, Nov-15-2010, 12:22:23 AM   #7
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For reference: I'm around 297hp (headers, BW exhaust, software, pullies).

So I need to weigh about 3270lbs for GTS3 (driver is about 210lbs). To make that I have to run close to 100lbs of ballast and start with a full tank of fuel, and even then I'm cutting it close. My doors still have functioning power windows and I also still have the stock heavy battery, so you can see it's real easy to get these cars below 2900lbs (no driver) without too much work.

Agree on the need to address the fuel starvation issue. If I start with a full tank, I can only run about 45 minutes before I develop pick-up issues in some right handers. I just installed the Bimmerworld kit (easy), and hope to test it out soon.
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Old Mon, Nov-15-2010, 01:25:07 AM   #8
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For fuel issues, why not just put in a fuel surge tank? It's sucks having to run with extra fuel (weight). And you guys are running really heavy cars!

In the turbo car, anything close to 1/4 tank results in starvation with the G's we're pulling. A surge tank solves that and allows the tank to run almost to empty.
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Old Mon, Nov-15-2010, 01:28:28 AM   #9
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Hey Josh. First off I love your car. I am running a very similar setup to your M3 but I am stock aero. When you installed your front splitter and rear wing what kind of difference in lap times did you have? Any feedback would be appreciated. I am looking at doing aero this winter if its worth it, cost vs reduced lap time. Thanks.

Dave
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Last edited by wrcdave; Mon, Nov-15-2010 at 01:31:06 AM. Reason: I meant to send you a pm and not post to this thread, sorry about that. You can respond via pm if you'd like.
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Old Mon, Nov-15-2010, 09:28:50 PM   #10
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Next question is: has anyone that has dyno'ed 2003+ M3's (where you cannot disable the wheel-speed-differential software issue) successfully found a type of dyno or setup that allows full RPM pulls ?

I've heard that the car needs to be on a 4WD dyno with the front rollers "linked" to the rear rollers so that the rear wheels are turning both front and rear rollers; this makes the wheel-speed-differential happy.

Those who are able to push a series of buttons and key positions at different time intervals, please save it, it doesn't work on the later models with this wheel-speed check.

For NASA we're can use the following dynos: DynoJet, DynoDynamics, Dynapack or Mustang (w/ 10% adder).

Locally we have DynoJet 248/224 (AWD) nearby... anyone know if it can be done on this dyno ?
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Discussing E46 M3 NASA TTS/GTS dyno in the M3 Track: Racing and DE Forum - Best mod for speed is learning to get the most out of what you currently have. Tracks and DE's is the place to start! at BMW M3 Forum.com (E30 M3 | E36 M3 | E46 M3 | E92 M3 | F80/X)