BMW M3 Forum
BMW M3 Forum BMW M3 Gallery BMW M3 Reviews BMW M3 Social Groups BMW M3 Chat M3Forum Sponsors >>
Loading


Mobile M3forum
Go Back   BMW M3 Forum.com (E30 M3 | E36 M3 | E46 M3 | E92 M3 | F80/X) > BMW M3 Discussions > E46 M3 (2001-2006) > Coding and Tuning
Tire Rack Buy Winter Tires Now!
Not a member? Register Now!
Register Gallery All Albums Garage Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Calendar FAQ

Coding and Tuning Discuss all avenues of coding and tuning here!


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old Fri, Jun-30-2017, 12:06:53 AM   #611
Turbovin
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 2
In the garage:
Reputation: 0 Turbovin is on a distinguished road

Sweden




Default Re: Comprehensive MSS50 DME information (Euro E36 M3 S50B32 321 PS)

When it's cold it's a bit cranky but not sure if that isn't normal for these engines. I would say it's worst when it's fully warmed up. If the car has been parked for a while and then started again it feels like it has better response. So it does feel like it works better when the water temp is normal but before the oil temp is fully warm. All the coil packs are replaced with new ones, I also tried a third set from my 530i E39 without result.

I will have a look in INPA tomorrow, can't say that I have noticed anything special but I'm no expert in reading those fuel trim charts in INPA. If I reset the adapations the throttle response does feel better but does go back to this state quite fast.
Jump to top Turbovin is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Register now and remove these ads
Old Sat, Aug-26-2017, 10:40:20 PM   #612
killiand
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 4
Reputation: 0 killiand is on a distinguished road

France




Default Re: Comprehensive MSS50 DME information (Euro E36 M3 S50B32 321 PS)

hi,

I search a link to download CHIPSTER MSS5X FLASHER, does anyone has it
i want to test flash MSS50 to MSS50.1
Thanks
Jump to top killiand is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Fri, Oct-06-2017, 07:51:15 PM   #613
Lambda1
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 2
Reputation: 0 Lambda1 is on a distinguished road

United States




Default Re: Comprehensive MSS50 DME information (Euro E36 M3 S50B32 321 PS)

KIMs Server is down because he died some weeks ago and his familiy has no interested yet in buisness.
So you have to go the old way with calibration edit ...
Jump to top Lambda1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Fri, Oct-06-2017, 09:58:26 PM   #614
MarkD
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 3
Reputation: 0 MarkD is on a distinguished road
Location: Toronto

Canada




Default Re: Comprehensive MSS50 DME information (Euro E36 M3 S50B32 321 PS)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lambda1 View Post
KIMs Server is down because he died some weeks ago and his familiy has no interested yet in buisness.
So you have to go the old way with calibration edit ...

Actually, he passed away on July 29.
Jump to top MarkD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Fri, Oct-06-2017, 10:33:36 PM   #615
To///Mba
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 19
Reputation: 0 To///Mba is on a distinguished road

Netherlands




Default Re: Comprehensive MSS50 DME information (Euro E36 M3 S50B32 321 PS)

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkD View Post
Actually, he passed away on July 29.
I'm speechless. Talked a lot to him in the past. Great guy.
I almost use his MSS5x flasher weekly.

Just send you a skype message. 😕
Jump to top To///Mba is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Wed, Nov-01-2017, 05:34:52 PM   #616
nrubenstein
*******
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Age: 35
Posts: 8,173
Reputation: 0 nrubenstein will become famous soon enough
Location: Washington, DC





Default Re: Comprehensive MSS50 DME information (Euro E36 M3 S50B32 321 PS)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Olza View Post
Ok. Lets talk for gear detection ratios. i know many of us, swappers, using different rear final drives.

Gear value is used for:
1. Master DME
- calculating Noise corrections (Gear 3 when Part or Full load).
2. Slave DME
- calculating additional injection (DKBA_TI) as speed and delta throttle thresholds;
- calculating additional offset to KF_EVAN1_SOLL (Intake Vanos target), used only up to 2(ZA version) or 3(Euro) gear, offset is up to 35 degree only for throttle >70% and 1500-2200 rpm range;
- calculating additional offset to KF_AVAN1_SOLL (Exhaust Vanos target), used only up to 2(ZA version) or 3(Euro) gear, offset is up to -21 degree only for throttle >60% and 1500-2200 rpm range;
- calculating fuel cut-off and rewetting, as rpm hysteresis threshold;
- (only 4.x) calculating different additional air support from Idle Air Valve for each gear up to 3rd on Idle, Part or Full loads (in 3.18 coolant temperature and rpm one table used);
- (only 4.x) calculating different SMG "moment manager" coefficients.

So Gear calculation is important thing for correct DME work! Calculations:
0. if
NO frictional connection (from Gear switch sensor OR if VS < 2 kmh AND Gear switch failed/disabled)
OR Speed sensor FAILED
Gear = 0

1. if VS = 0 then NV_THD = 0 else
NV_THD = N/VS

2.
GANG_NV_1 = 117 (120 for 3.23 ratio?)
GANG_NV_2 = 68 (70 for 3.23)
GANG_NV_3 = 45 (46 for 3.23)
GANG_NV_4 = 33 (34 for 3.23)
GANG_NV_5 = 27 (27 for 3.23)
GANG_NV_6 = 22 (22 for 3.23)
GANG_NV_7 = 193 (193 for 3.23)
GANG_NV_HYS = 4

3.
Gear = 1 if (GANG_NV_1 - GANG_NV_HYS*4) < NV_THD < (GANG_NV_1 + GANG_NV_HYS*4)
Gear = 2 if (GANG_NV_2 - GANG_NV_HYS*3) < NV_THD < (GANG_NV_2 + GANG_NV_HYS*3)
Gear = 3 if (GANG_NV_3 - GANG_NV_HYS*2) < NV_THD < (GANG_NV_3 + GANG_NV_HYS*2)
Gear = 4 if (GANG_NV_4 - GANG_NV_HYS) < NV_THD < (GANG_NV_4 + GANG_NV_HYS)
Gear = 5 if (GANG_NV_5 - GANG_NV_HYS) < NV_THD < (GANG_NV_5 + GANG_NV_HYS)
Gear = 6 if (GANG_NV_6 - GANG_NV_HYS) < NV_THD < (GANG_NV_6 + GANG_NV_HYS)
Gear = 7 if (GANG_NV_7 - GANG_NV_HYS) < NV_THD < (GANG_NV_7 + GANG_NV_HYS) rear
else Gear = 8

Example:
My rear gear is 3.23. Im cruising 110 kmh at 3200 rpm on 5 gear (1:1 ratio, 5 gears gearbox).
NV_THD = 3200/110 = 29.
DME thinks i have gear 5 engaged because 27-4 < 29 < 27+4 (23 < 29 < 31).

Easy money.

So, my questions are:
1. for what differential ratios values from example above?
2. can someone recalculate ratios for 3.23, 3.91, 3.45, 3.15, 2.93 rear gear?

Please contribute! Thanks!
So, by my math, NV_THD appears to be roughly a fixed number through the RPM range. Ergo, 650 RPMs / 14.73 kmh = 27.4, and 8000 RPMs / 291.8 kmh = 27.4. This really simplifies things by letting you just take one NV/THD value per gear (which makes sense).

For a 3.91 diff, I'm getting these calculated values:
143
84
54
41
33
27

HOWEVER, there is some overlap between the ranges when using a strictly calculated value at the higher gears.

Adjusting the GANG_NV values to avoid range overlap, I get this:
143
84
54
41
32
23

I should note that gears 3-6 all have ranges that directly abut, which suggests that you need to use fairly precise values. One thing that I am also wondering about is exactly how the DME rounds these values. Does it round up, down, or in a standard fashion? Depending on how you do your rounding, 6th gear might need some tweaking as NV_THD for 6th is 27.4. Can I have a range of 20-28 for 6th gear and 28-36 for 5th? In that case, I'd adjust the GANG_NV_6 value to 24.

Edit: I guess the other real question is does it matter what gear the car thinks that it's in at the top? It seems like it would matter a lot more for lower gears.

Am I on the right track here?
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Screen Shot 2017-11-01 at 12.28.34 PM.jpg (54.9 KB, 7 views)
__________________
2006 GMC Sierra 2500HD 4WD Duramax LBZ/Allison
2002 BMW M3 Alpinweiß/Black - Dinan/Bilstein, AS SSK, JBL MS-62C, IDQ-12v3, JBL MS-8
1999 323i KP/GTS2 Alpinweiß - Hood-in-the-windshield mod
1995 M3 Dakargelb/Black - S50B32/S6S420G, Diffsonline 3.91, H&R/Bilstein, Hotchkis, AS SSK, etc...
1990 325is Brilliantrot/Tan - GC/Bilstein, Sway
1989 325is Alpinweiß/Black - Decontenting...
1989 M3 Alpinweiß/Black - S62B50 in progress...

Hers: 1996 Porsche 911 Turbo Black/Black - UMW LTW Flywheel, Bilstein
Hers: 1988 325iX Coupe Diamondschwartz/Black 5spd - Korman lengthened front driveshaft, 272 cam, H&R/Bilstein


Last edited by nrubenstein; Wed, Nov-01-2017 at 08:14:33 PM.
Jump to top nrubenstein is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Wed, Nov-01-2017, 08:15:50 PM   #617
terraphantm
Moderator
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 10,866
In the garage:
Reputation: 11 terraphantm is on a distinguished road
Location: Philadelphia

United States




Default Re: Comprehensive MSS50 DME information (Euro E36 M3 S50B32 321 PS)

Quote:
Originally Posted by nrubenstein View Post
So, by my math, NV_THD appears to be roughly a fixed number through the RPM range. Ergo, 650 RPMs / 14.73 kmh = 27.4, and 8000 RPMs / 291.8 kmh = 27.4. This really simplifies things by letting you just take one NV/THD value per gear (which makes sense).
Yeah it should be constant for a given gear, diff, and tire size. You can prove it algebraically too.

KMH = [RPM * 60 min / 1 hr * tire_circumference ] / (Transmission gear ratio * diff ratio)

With a little bit of algebra, you get RPM / KMH = (Gear Ratio * diff ratio * 1hr) / (60 min * tire_circumference).

Notice how speed and RPM don't appear in the right side of the equation, so you can calculate rpm/kmh pretty easily. Can use the same formula (remembering to convert circumference to kilometers) in a spreadsheet to make calculations really quick.

Need some fudge factor since tires vary from brand to brand, model to model, with pressure, and with wear. Unfortunately the MSS50 derives the hystereses from a single value (unlike the MSS54 which lets you explicitly define the minimum and maximum values), which makes it a little tougher to correct for certain diff ratios. I think it's okay to have the ranges right next to each other, but the DME may get a little confused if a calculation ends up being exactly 28.

Alternatively, you could try to change the hysteresis value (at 5F07) from 4 to a smaller value.
__________________
Jump to top terraphantm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Thu, Nov-02-2017, 03:48:31 PM   #618
nrubenstein
*******
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Age: 35
Posts: 8,173
Reputation: 0 nrubenstein will become famous soon enough
Location: Washington, DC





Default Re: Comprehensive MSS50 DME information (Euro E36 M3 S50B32 321 PS)

Quote:
Originally Posted by terraphantm View Post
Yeah it should be constant for a given gear, diff, and tire size. You can prove it algebraically too.

KMH = [RPM * 60 min / 1 hr * tire_circumference ] / (Transmission gear ratio * diff ratio)

With a little bit of algebra, you get RPM / KMH = (Gear Ratio * diff ratio * 1hr) / (60 min * tire_circumference).

Notice how speed and RPM don't appear in the right side of the equation, so you can calculate rpm/kmh pretty easily. Can use the same formula (remembering to convert circumference to kilometers) in a spreadsheet to make calculations really quick.

Need some fudge factor since tires vary from brand to brand, model to model, with pressure, and with wear. Unfortunately the MSS50 derives the hystereses from a single value (unlike the MSS54 which lets you explicitly define the minimum and maximum values), which makes it a little tougher to correct for certain diff ratios. I think it's okay to have the ranges right next to each other, but the DME may get a little confused if a calculation ends up being exactly 28.

Alternatively, you could try to change the hysteresis value (at 5F07) from 4 to a smaller value.
Lowering GANG_NV_HYS to 3 makes everything simple. Seems like the thing to do when the gearing gets tight, i.e. with a 3.91.

Edit: Realized that I could make my spreadsheet output hex automatically and swapped out the chart.
Attached Images
File Type: png Screen Shot 2017-11-02 at 10.52.57 AM.png (84.0 KB, 6 views)
__________________
2006 GMC Sierra 2500HD 4WD Duramax LBZ/Allison
2002 BMW M3 Alpinweiß/Black - Dinan/Bilstein, AS SSK, JBL MS-62C, IDQ-12v3, JBL MS-8
1999 323i KP/GTS2 Alpinweiß - Hood-in-the-windshield mod
1995 M3 Dakargelb/Black - S50B32/S6S420G, Diffsonline 3.91, H&R/Bilstein, Hotchkis, AS SSK, etc...
1990 325is Brilliantrot/Tan - GC/Bilstein, Sway
1989 325is Alpinweiß/Black - Decontenting...
1989 M3 Alpinweiß/Black - S62B50 in progress...

Hers: 1996 Porsche 911 Turbo Black/Black - UMW LTW Flywheel, Bilstein
Hers: 1988 325iX Coupe Diamondschwartz/Black 5spd - Korman lengthened front driveshaft, 272 cam, H&R/Bilstein


Last edited by nrubenstein; Thu, Nov-02-2017 at 03:54:13 PM.
Jump to top nrubenstein is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Thu, Nov-02-2017, 04:45:31 PM   #619
nrubenstein
*******
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Age: 35
Posts: 8,173
Reputation: 0 nrubenstein will become famous soon enough
Location: Washington, DC





Default Re: Comprehensive MSS50 DME information (Euro E36 M3 S50B32 321 PS)

OK, made a couple of slight corrections as I had entered the gear ratios from memory in my earlier calculations.

I threw together a sheet that calculates the values and outputs hex semi-automatically. I've attached it here. Please feel free to check my math and/or enjoy.
Attached Images
File Type: png Screen Shot 2017-11-02 at 11.44.44 AM.png (254.0 KB, 10 views)
Attached Files
File Type: xlsx S50B32 Gear Range Calculator Sheet.xlsx (10.1 KB, 5 views)
__________________
2006 GMC Sierra 2500HD 4WD Duramax LBZ/Allison
2002 BMW M3 Alpinweiß/Black - Dinan/Bilstein, AS SSK, JBL MS-62C, IDQ-12v3, JBL MS-8
1999 323i KP/GTS2 Alpinweiß - Hood-in-the-windshield mod
1995 M3 Dakargelb/Black - S50B32/S6S420G, Diffsonline 3.91, H&R/Bilstein, Hotchkis, AS SSK, etc...
1990 325is Brilliantrot/Tan - GC/Bilstein, Sway
1989 325is Alpinweiß/Black - Decontenting...
1989 M3 Alpinweiß/Black - S62B50 in progress...

Hers: 1996 Porsche 911 Turbo Black/Black - UMW LTW Flywheel, Bilstein
Hers: 1988 325iX Coupe Diamondschwartz/Black 5spd - Korman lengthened front driveshaft, 272 cam, H&R/Bilstein

Jump to top nrubenstein is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Thu, Nov-02-2017, 08:48:34 PM   #620
hybridnz
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 40
In the garage:
Reputation: 0 hybridnz is on a distinguished road
Location: Auckland, New Zealand

New Zealand




Default Re: Comprehensive MSS50 DME information (Euro E36 M3 S50B32 321 PS)

Looks good, how ever you probably need to automatically calculate the theoretical upper and lower ranges. EG I run a 3.15 diff and dont get any overlap.

I have confirmed this in the RAM address too and confirming calculations.
__________________
Jump to top hybridnz is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT. The time now is 04:27:10 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
M3Forum.com and M3forum.net is in no way sponsored, endorsed or affiliated by or with BMW NA / BMW AG or any of it's subsidiaries or vendors.
BMW and M3 (E90 M3 | E92 M3 | E93 M3 | E46 M3 | E36 M3 | E30 M3) are registered trademarks of BMW AG.
M3Forum Terms of Service
Copyright ©1999-2017 M3Forum.com
Discussing Comprehensive MSS50 DME information (Euro E36 M3 S50B32 321 PS) in the Coding and Tuning Forum - Discuss all avenues of coding and tuning here! at BMW M3 Forum.com (E30 M3 | E36 M3 | E46 M3 | E92 M3 | F80/X)