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M3 Track: Racing and DE Best mod for speed is learning to get the most out of what you currently have. Tracks and DE's is the place to start!


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Old Mon, Nov-19-2018, 12:51:43 PM   #1
PenguinScotty
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Default 4.10 Gearset with ZF 5-Speed at quick tracks

The poor diff in my car is starting to lock less and less with every day at the track, so the time to switch out the LSD is approaching quickly.

Thinking down the line, i'm playing with the idea of adding a set of 4.10 gears as well, since it appears to be a very popular mod for the track guys.

Thinking even FURTHER down the road, i am slightly concerned that pairing it with a ZF 5-Speed, once my 6-Speed goes, could pose some issues on faster tracks like Road America and Road Atlanta (my "home" track).

Hence why, once again, i cometh to you, fellow trackists, for advice. Anybody running 4.10 gears with the 5-speed at fast tracks without issue?

Currently, the car is on stock power, maybe less due to age, hitting ~140mph down the back straight at Road Atlanta in 5th gear (forgot what RPM in 5th, but not close to redline). Winding out 4th down the front straight, going into 1, almost kissing the limiter there.

Thank you!
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Old Mon, Nov-19-2018, 01:38:19 PM   #2
Gtfour
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Default Re: 4.10 Gearset with ZF 5-Speed at quick tracks

You should be able to hit 150mph with a 4.10, ZF 5speed and 275/35/18 tires


https://kmiata.com/pages/gearing-cal...%2C1.23%2C1%5D

If you go 4.10 and ZF 5speed and need more top speed, you can always switch to a bigger overall diameter tire in the rear. 275/35/18 = 25.6’’ so going with a 285/35 or 295/35 will give you a bigger overall diameter.
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Last edited by Gtfour; Mon, Nov-19-2018 at 01:42:28 PM.
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Old Mon, Nov-19-2018, 05:30:20 PM   #3
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Default Re: 4.10 Gearset with ZF 5-Speed at quick tracks

Quote:
Originally Posted by PenguinScotty View Post
The poor diff in my car is starting to lock less and less with every day at the track, so the time to switch out the LSD is approaching quickly.



Thinking down the line, i'm playing with the idea of adding a set of 4.10 gears as well, since it appears to be a very popular mod for the track guys.



Thinking even FURTHER down the road, i am slightly concerned that pairing it with a ZF 5-Speed, once my 6-Speed goes, could pose some issues on faster tracks like Road America and Road Atlanta (my "home" track).



Hence why, once again, i cometh to you, fellow trackists, for advice. Anybody running 4.10 gears with the 5-speed at fast tracks without issue?



Currently, the car is on stock power, maybe less due to age, hitting ~140mph down the back straight at Road Atlanta in 5th gear (forgot what RPM in 5th, but not close to redline). Winding out 4th down the front straight, going into 1, almost kissing the limiter there.



Thank you!


I run 3.91 with 5 speed. I would not go to 4.10. I nearly run out of gear at fast tracks like WGI and VIR.




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Old Mon, Nov-19-2018, 06:54:23 PM   #4
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Default Re: 4.10 Gearset with ZF 5-Speed at quick tracks

Actually, wouldn't a shorter diff be better for a gear box with longer tranny gears (ratios further apart)?

If you have 5 gears instead of 6, each one is longer then no? Seems to me, the fewer tranny gears you have, the shorter a rear end you can run.

I guess the top speed is sacrificed though.
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Last edited by TboneM3; Mon, Nov-19-2018 at 09:04:14 PM.
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Old Mon, Nov-19-2018, 10:22:21 PM   #5
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Default Re: 4.10 Gearset with ZF 5-Speed at quick tracks

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Originally Posted by TboneM3 View Post
Actually, wouldn't a shorter diff be better for a gear box with longer tranny gears (ratios further apart)?



If you have 5 gears instead of 6, each one is longer then no? Seems to me, the fewer tranny gears you have, the shorter a rear end you can run.



I guess the top speed is sacrificed though.


5 speed and 6 speed basically have the same first 5 gear ratios.


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Old Tue, Nov-20-2018, 02:38:45 AM   #6
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Default Re: 4.10 Gearset with ZF 5-Speed at quick tracks

Just back from Road Atlanta last weekend. I have 4.10 and the stock Getrag 6-speed. Hitting 152-155MPH at the Motul sign on the straight just before braking for 10A and the shift light comes on, but it's a little below redline.

At Road America, I'm out of gears on the front straight and back striaght (turn 3-5) and at COTA on the straight from turn 11-12.

I'm actually looking into a 3.91 ring and pinion. The ZF 5-speed is on my work bench when I get energetic.

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Old Tue, Nov-20-2018, 02:21:01 PM   #7
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Default Re: 4.10 Gearset with ZF 5-Speed at quick tracks

Cheers guys, appreciate the input.

Probably going to stick with the stock 3.62 for now and maybe snag a 3.91 if it comes up for sale over the next year or two, since i'm not chasing times or am doing wheel to wheel. The diff has been re-sealed less than a year ago, so perhaps in a year or two it will make sense to rebuild it completely anyway. Should be a better time for the Ring and Pinion upgrade then.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Feffman View Post
Just back from Road Atlanta last weekend. I have 4.10 and the stock Getrag 6-speed. Hitting 152-155MPH at the Motul sign on the straight just before braking for 10A and the shift light comes on, but it's a little below redline.

At Road America, I'm out of gears on the front straight and bakc striaght (turn 3-5) and at COTA on the straight from turn 11-12.

I'm actually looking into a 3.91 ring and pinion. The ZF 5-speed is on my work bench when I get energetic.

Feff
Hey Mark,

Thanks for your input and organizing the event at Road Atlanta last weekend. I'm the weird bearded guy with the Silver E46 that had a bunch of dumb questions.

Saw that you are running a Drexler diff in your car, but forgot to ask you about it, actually. About to pull the trigger on one as well, from a guy based in Germany called Limitedslip.de . How are you liking yours?
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Old Tue, Nov-20-2018, 02:28:27 PM   #8
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Default Re: 4.10 Gearset with ZF 5-Speed at quick tracks

GTFour touched on the tire size thing as well, I'd agree with him but suggest going the opposite direction.

Go 3.91, if you still have plenty of gear for your driving style and want shorter you could switch from 275/35's to 285/30's (which is what we run on my car)

8000rpm redline for all examples:

Using 275's with a 4.10 your top speed in 5th would be: 148.6 mph
Using 285's with a 4.10 your top speed in 5th would be: 1:44.0 mph

Using 275's with a 3.91 your top speed in 5th would be: 155.8 mph
Using 285's with a 3.91 your top speed in 5th would be: 151.0 mph

Using 275's with a 3.62 your top speed in 5th would be: 168.4 mph
Using 285's with a 3.62 your top speed in 5th would be: 163.1 mph


We're using the 3.62 and 285's on my car and don't run out of gear at ATL (haven't been to Rd. America yet although we'll be there twice next year.)
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Old Tue, Nov-20-2018, 03:08:44 PM   #9
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Default Re: 4.10 Gearset with ZF 5-Speed at quick tracks

Quote:
Originally Posted by klodkrawler05 View Post
GTFour touched on the tire size thing as well, I'd agree with him but suggest going the opposite direction.

Go 3.91, if you still have plenty of gear for your driving style and want shorter you could switch from 275/35's to 285/30's (which is what we run on my car)

8000rpm redline for all examples:

Using 275's with a 4.10 your top speed in 5th would be: 148.6 mph
Using 285's with a 4.10 your top speed in 5th would be: 1:44.0 mph

Using 275's with a 3.91 your top speed in 5th would be: 155.8 mph
Using 285's with a 3.91 your top speed in 5th would be: 151.0 mph

Using 275's with a 3.62 your top speed in 5th would be: 168.4 mph
Using 285's with a 3.62 your top speed in 5th would be: 163.1 mph


We're using the 3.62 and 285's on my car and don't run out of gear at ATL (haven't been to Rd. America yet although we'll be there twice next year.)
i like this thread.
Theoritically, what would my top speed be with a 4.10, using 275/35r18, in 4th gear?? 120 mph?
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Old Tue, Nov-20-2018, 04:30:57 PM   #10
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Default Re: 4.10 Gearset with ZF 5-Speed at quick tracks

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Originally Posted by Jevi Javi View Post
i like this thread.
Theoritically, what would my top speed be with a 4.10, using 275/35r18, in 4th gear?? 120 mph?
Spot on, 4th gear (1.23) with a 4.10 and 8000rpm puts you at 120.8mph in 4th gear.

FWIW:
I'm using this list for ratios:
http://www.bokchoys.com/differential/GearRatios.htm

then plugging in 25.6" or 24.8" diameter for tires and using this calculator:
http://www.csgnetwork.com/speedcalc.html
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Discussing 4.10 Gearset with ZF 5-Speed at quick tracks in the M3 Track: Racing and DE Forum - Best mod for speed is learning to get the most out of what you currently have. Tracks and DE's is the place to start! at BMW M3 Forum.com (E30 M3 | E36 M3 | E46 M3 | E92 M3 | F80/X)