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E36 M3 (1992-1999) {Euro - S50 B32 321hp @ 7400 rpm} {U.S. - S52 B32 240 hp @ 6000 rpm}
Total Produced: 71,212 - Years Produced: 1992 to 1999


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Old Tue, Sep-20-2016, 10:48:17 PM   #21
nrubenstein
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Default Re: cooling issue, was told head cooling ports might be clogged

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Originally Posted by Denniscastro View Post
i have not, maybe install a lower temp thermo? but once fully warmed up, wont they be at the same temp, or will the lower temp one keep the car cooler?
No. A thermostat will (roughly) keep the coolant at the specified temperature by opening and closing. The only time that the coolant temperature should dramatically exceed the thermostat temperature (and let me be clear, I'd put 205 within the range of normal for a 92 degree thermostat) is when the cooling system is completely saturated. And the cooling system should NEVER be saturated under anything approaching regular driving conditions.

Keep in mind that an 88 degree thermostat is also common for these cars, and that it would run the car around 7 degrees (fahrenheit) cooler than a 92 degree t-stat.

Net-net, if you're going to obsess over this, pull the thermostat and stick it in a pot of water on your stove. Measure the exact temperature when it opens, and see if that matches the range on it.
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2002 BMW M3 Alpinweiß/Black - Konis, AS SSK, JBL MS-62C, IDQ-12v3, JBL MS-8
1999 323i KP/GTS2 Alpinweiß - Hood-in-the-windshield mod
1995 M3 Dakargelb/Black - S50B32/S6S420G, Diffsonline 3.91, H&R/Bilstein, Hotchkis, AS SSK, etc...
1990 325is Brilliantrot/Tan - GC/Bilstein, Sway
1989 325is Alpinweiß/Black - Decontenting...
1989 M3 Alpinweiß/Black - S62B50 in progress...

Hers: 1996 Porsche 911 Turbo Black/Black - UMW LTW Flywheel, Bilstein
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Old Wed, Sep-21-2016, 01:20:47 AM   #22
Denniscastro
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Default Re: cooling issue, was told head cooling ports might be clogged

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Originally Posted by nrubenstein View Post
No. A thermostat will (roughly) keep the coolant at the specified temperature by opening and closing. The only time that the coolant temperature should dramatically exceed the thermostat temperature (and let me be clear, I'd put 205 within the range of normal for a 92 degree thermostat) is when the cooling system is completely saturated. And the cooling system should NEVER be saturated under anything approaching regular driving conditions.

Keep in mind that an 88 degree thermostat is also common for these cars, and that it would run the car around 7 degrees (fahrenheit) cooler than a 92 degree t-stat.

Net-net, if you're going to obsess over this, pull the thermostat and stick it in a pot of water on your stove. Measure the exact temperature when it opens, and see if that matches the range on it.
this is some great info, i appreciate the help and guidance, im going to run the car for a bit and keep an eye on the gauge and re-evaluate
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Old Wed, Sep-21-2016, 02:51:04 AM   #23
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Default Re: cooling issue, was told head cooling ports might be clogged

Cue Braymond for his thoughts and Mparrallel for his FACTS (Euro is better thoughts). lol


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Old Wed, Sep-21-2016, 12:55:59 PM   #24
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Default Re: cooling issue, was told head cooling ports might be clogged

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Originally Posted by nrubenstein View Post
No. A thermostat will (roughly) keep the coolant at the specified temperature by opening and closing. The only time that the coolant temperature should dramatically exceed the thermostat temperature (and let me be clear, I'd put 205 within the range of normal for a 92 degree thermostat) is when the cooling system is completely saturated. And the cooling system should NEVER be saturated under anything approaching regular driving conditions.

Keep in mind that an 88 degree thermostat is also common for these cars, and that it would run the car around 7 degrees (fahrenheit) cooler than a 92
Most of us do not experience this. The thermo alone will not regulate engine operating temp. Whether you run an 80, 88 or 92, the motor will typically run around 200. This is because the rest of the system does not match and cannot keep up. For a colder thermo, you would want colder fan switches. You can make one of these motors run at 180 but will be running fans full time in hot weather. With my 80C thermo, I see 80C only in winter weather. In stop and go traffic with ac on, I see 205F. Probably 10F less on the highway. I do have an aftermarket puller fan with an adjustable switch (as well as 80/88C auxiliary fan switch, mishi z3s54 radiator, Stewart pump, etc).
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Old Wed, Sep-21-2016, 01:25:18 PM   #25
Denniscastro
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Default Re: cooling issue, was told head cooling ports might be clogged

the shop said they put in an 88c thermo in mine
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Old Wed, Sep-21-2016, 03:18:56 PM   #26
nrubenstein
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Default Re: cooling issue, was told head cooling ports might be clogged

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Originally Posted by Denniscastro View Post
the shop said they put in an 88c thermo in mine
Are you measuring the temperature at idle, or driving down the highway?

I don't 100% agree with pbonsalb, however, driving down the highway eliminates other factors (like where your fans engage, which is not necessarily going to be the same as where the thermostat engages).

Edit: pbonsalb and I do fundamentally agree on this point, though: there's nothing really wrong with your car. your shop is just making you paranoid.
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2006 GMC Sierra 2500HD 4WD - Duramax LBZ/Allison
2002 BMW M3 Alpinweiß/Black - Konis, AS SSK, JBL MS-62C, IDQ-12v3, JBL MS-8
1999 323i KP/GTS2 Alpinweiß - Hood-in-the-windshield mod
1995 M3 Dakargelb/Black - S50B32/S6S420G, Diffsonline 3.91, H&R/Bilstein, Hotchkis, AS SSK, etc...
1990 325is Brilliantrot/Tan - GC/Bilstein, Sway
1989 325is Alpinweiß/Black - Decontenting...
1989 M3 Alpinweiß/Black - S62B50 in progress...

Hers: 1996 Porsche 911 Turbo Black/Black - UMW LTW Flywheel, Bilstein
Hers: 1988 325iX Coupe Diamondschwartz/Black 5spd - Korman lengthened front driveshaft, 272 cam, H&R/Bilstein

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Old Wed, Sep-21-2016, 03:30:19 PM   #27
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Default Re: cooling issue, was told head cooling ports might be clogged

88C is 190F. The thermo takes a few degrees to open. A good question is the temperature rating for the fan clutch. Is it matched to an 88 or 92 thermo or is it a compromise? BMW uses the same PN for fan clutches for 328 and M3 but 328 uses 92C thermo and M3 uses 88C thermo from the factory. Is your aux fan running the stock 91/99C switch?

Anyway, I think your 205F is in the normal range and not indicative of a problem.
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Old Wed, Sep-21-2016, 03:36:22 PM   #28
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Default Re: cooling issue, was told head cooling ports might be clogged

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Originally Posted by nrubenstein View Post

driving down the highway eliminates other factors (like where your fans engage, which is not necessarily going to be the same as where the thermostat engages).
I can tell you that with an 80C thermostat driving down the highway, my motor does not run at 80C or 176F except in very cold weather. The thermostat alone is not enough to control engine temperature in these cars. I wish it was, but in my experience, it has not. Maybe if I had a track car with AC delete, it would be. What have others experienced? Also consider that if you are running a factory fan clutch, it is still doing some cooling even when not locked up, and that helps regulate temperature. The best data would come from those with fan clutch deletes.

I think the OP should use an OBD2 scan tool to plug in to read the factory temp sender to verify that his infrared is accurate. There may be a few degrees difference.
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Old Wed, Sep-21-2016, 09:27:29 PM   #29
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Default Re: cooling issue, was told head cooling ports might be clogged

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Originally Posted by pbonsalb View Post
I can tell you that with an 80C thermostat driving down the highway, my motor does not run at 80C or 176F except in very cold weather. The thermostat alone is not enough to control engine temperature in these cars. I wish it was, but in my experience, it has not. Maybe if I had a track car with AC delete, it would be. What have others experienced? Also consider that if you are running a factory fan clutch, it is still doing some cooling even when not locked up, and that helps regulate temperature. The best data would come from those with fan clutch deletes.

I think the OP should use an OBD2 scan tool to plug in to read the factory temp sender to verify that his infrared is accurate. There may be a few degrees difference.
will do this weekend! thank you all very much for the help, information, and suggestions. ill take it for a long drive and monitor coolant/oil temp and report back,

Ian
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Old Wed, Sep-21-2016, 09:37:58 PM   #30
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Default Re: cooling issue, was told head cooling ports might be clogged

Just a datapoint. I have an OBDII ultragauge hooked up to keep an eye on temps. Mine (stock) runs about 198-203F while moving. Idling in the garage on a hot day, it'll eventually go up to ~208 when the aux fan kicks on and immediately brings it back down. If you're idling and hitting the upper radiator hose with an IR thermometer, 205 is perfectly reasonable.
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Discussing cooling issue, was told head cooling ports might be clogged in the E36 M3 (1992-1999) Forum - {Euro - S50 B32 321hp @ 7400 rpm} {U.S. - S52 B32 240 hp @ 6000 rpm}
Total Produced: 71,212 - Years Produced: 1992 to 1999 at BMW M3 Forum.com (E30 M3 | E36 M3 | E46 M3 | E92 M3 | F80/X)