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E46 M3 (2001-2006) Engine: S54 - Max Hp: 333 hp at 7,900 rpm / 262 lb/ft at 4,900 rpm
Total Produced: 45,000+ - Years Produced: 2001 to 2006.


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Old Fri, Mar-03-2017, 03:17:30 PM   #41
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Default Re: Ordered AKG solid subframe mounts and they emailed me back......

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Originally Posted by albino09 View Post
I agree with AKG. If you remove play and vibration at one end, it will all end up on the other. The energy has to go somewhere. You'll end up eating up diff bushings faster than you normally would.
that thought suggests displacing energy to the diff bushings and not the subframe bushings/area... something I'm completely fine with regularly replacing.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Newswartz View Post
I told them to switch me to 95a
guess you didn't read the AKG poly defamation thread... said thread was probably what causes the auto-CYA mail received when ya originally ordered the solids.





if there's an issue with solids... prove it or stfu
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Old Fri, Mar-03-2017, 04:11:06 PM   #42
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Default Re: Ordered AKG solid subframe mounts and they emailed me back......

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Originally Posted by Newswartz View Post
I told them to switch me to 95a


That's what I went with 3 years and 60k miles ago. Great setup. Gets rid of the stock bushing pressure points and limits movement without added NVH. The diff bushings add a tiny bit of NVH but the only time I've noticed it is with the rear seats folded down and the radio off. 95a all around or 95a subframe and OE diff are the best setups for a street car, IMO.
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Old Fri, Mar-03-2017, 06:17:22 PM   #43
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Default Re: Ordered AKG solid subframe mounts and they emailed me back......

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Originally Posted by BearDeXPS View Post
that thought suggests displacing energy to the diff bushings and not the subframe bushings/area... something I'm completely fine with regularly replacing.




guess you didn't read the AKG poly defamation thread... said thread was probably what causes the auto-CYA mail received when ya originally ordered the solids.





if there's an issue with solids... prove it or stfu


What thread?
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Old Fri, Mar-03-2017, 07:38:58 PM   #44
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Default Re: Ordered AKG solid subframe mounts and they emailed me back......

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It's a difference in design. The E46 rear suspension was designed with compliant bushing material in mind. Comparing this rear subframe to the later E9X cars where the mounts are bolted to high-strength steel frame rails, it's a comparison of apples to oranges.

I agree with AKG. If you remove play and vibration at one end, it will all end up on the other. The energy has to go somewhere. You'll end up eating up diff bushings faster than you normally would.
Yeah, I understand that. I'm saying, if the force of the subframe onto the racp is properly distributed to the chassis legs/frame rails, what difference does the slighter smaller footprint of the subframe (e46 vs e9x) make on everything else. Why would that cause problems with the diff? I don't know specifically how the diff in the e9x mounts to its subframe compared to e46, but I wouldn't think they're so different. They have basically the same lsd mechanism after all.

Looking online it seems like the e9x diff has two bushings in the rear and one in front, like e46. Interesting to me that AKG said having different material subframe/diff bushings in itself can be a problem
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Old Fri, Mar-03-2017, 07:47:39 PM   #45
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Default Re: Ordered AKG solid subframe mounts and they emailed me back......

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Yeah, I understand that. I'm saying, if the force of the subframe onto the racp is properly distributed to the chassis legs/frame rails, what difference does the slighter smaller footprint of the subframe (e46 vs e9x) make on everything else. Why would that cause problems with the diff? I don't know specifically how the diff in the e9x mounts to its subframe compared to e46, but I wouldn't think they're so different. They have basically the same lsd mechanism after all.

Looking online it seems like the e9x diff has two bushings in the rear and one in front, like e46. Interesting to me that AKG said having different material subframe/diff bushings in itself can be a problem
I wasn't speaking to the floor pan issue, just that if you remove all possible movement from the carrier, it will all transfer into the diff and floor of the vehicle. Think of it as water, if you dam it up in one place it will find the path of least resistance.
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Old Fri, Mar-03-2017, 07:58:52 PM   #46
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Default Re: Ordered AKG solid subframe mounts and they emailed me back......

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I wasn't speaking to the floor pan issue, just that if you remove all possible movement from the carrier, it will all transfer into the diff and floor of the vehicle. Think of it as water, if you dam it up in one place it will find the path of least resistance.
Still not sure where you're disagreeing with what I said or bringing new information... I would say I am pretty competent in general physics. There are other cars that have rigid subframes (aka diff bushings take all the abuse). Why would this be so bad on the e46. Of course, the floor pan needs to be addressed. But as long as the force at the subframe mounts has a strong, mostly rigid place to go to (like Vince's solution), what is the problem with solid mounts..?

Not trying to sound like a d!ck, just genuinely asking
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Old Fri, Mar-03-2017, 08:43:35 PM   #47
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Default Re: Ordered AKG solid subframe mounts and they emailed me back......

There are obviously pros and cons with everything, in fact everything is a compromise.

But I too have a hard time understanding why solid subframe bushings combined with OE diff bushings would be such an issue for the diff.

I understand there is less elasticity in the drivetrain that can absorb shocks, but I just don't see how that could be a deal breaker for a solid bushing, considering the benefits of the solid bushing.

I currently have poly bushings, and have been advocating polys over solids (mostly for the reasons brought up in this thread) for some time. But having spent some time looking into this in more detail I've come to a different conclusion. And will most likely (time permitting) be changing to solid subframe bushings in the near future.

But as it's late Friday night here I'll be sharing my thoughts and findings tomorrow.

I also noticed that this thread contains quite a few misunderstandings, mixups, and incorrect statements that I also intend to comment tomorrow.


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Old Sat, Mar-04-2017, 03:17:18 AM   #48
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Default Re: Ordered AKG solid subframe mounts and they emailed me back......

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Originally Posted by BTB View Post
Well part of the point of going solid, as I understand it, is to restrict movement and reduce oscillation (or increase the natural frequency, I guess) in the rear suspension as a whole, eliminating or reducing wheel hop. This won't be addressed by just strengthening the chassis. But if that is of no interest to you than oe probably would be perfect

It seems, then, that solid subframe bushings are likely most effective (or least problematic) when used in conjunction with proper redistribution of the load path of the rear subframe, whether in the form of the vince bar or other. It does seem like using aluminum bushings on a stock, non-reinforced car would be a bad idea... given that other cars feature solid mounted subframes with rubber diff bushings, I wonder what problems could arise from doing the same, other than maybe shorter bushing life...?
Oh yes, I'm sure that solids dramatically increase precision and response of the entire rear system, surely something easily felt behind the wheel.
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Old Mon, Mar-06-2017, 01:12:27 AM   #49
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Default Re: Ordered AKG solid subframe mounts and they emailed me back......

Fwiw Ive had all oem, all 75D, 75D SF w/ oem diff, solid sf w/95A diff and I'd choose solid SF with new oem or a softer poly for diff.

I currently have Akg aluminum SF with 95A in the E36 and after I pick up my E46M next week it's getting the same. Great feel, minimal if any NVH at all.

Pgh area, welcome to a ride.
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Old Mon, Mar-06-2017, 03:31:58 AM   #50
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Default Re: Ordered AKG solid subframe mounts and they emailed me back......

If there's one thing I've learned in my dealings with AKG, it's that Lisa is never wrong.
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Discussing Ordered AKG solid subframe mounts and they emailed me back...... in the E46 M3 (2001-2006) Forum - Engine: S54 - Max Hp: 333 hp at 7,900 rpm / 262 lb/ft at 4,900 rpm
Total Produced: 45,000+ - Years Produced: 2001 to 2006. at BMW M3 Forum.com (E30 M3 | E36 M3 | E46 M3 | E92 M3 | F80/X)