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Old Fri, May-19-2017, 05:16:34 PM   #41
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Default Re: The Greatest BMW Sedan Ever?

I'll agree the E90 is less driver oriented. But, on the E39: The shifter sucks. The seat trim/switch plate is always broken. NAV is a joke. Door cards despite being all leather have lots of problems, but maybe that's just an issue in wetter climates like PNW?

For sure the E39 is leagues above the E46 in quality and how well it's aged, but I don't really agree on the E90. Excluding the full leather option which isn't ever going to be found in a 3 series.
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Old Fri, May-19-2017, 05:17:08 PM   #42
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Default Re: The Greatest BMW Sedan Ever?

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Originally Posted by Serious View Post
i'd probably agree... e39 has a pretty nice interior. e9x has pretty bad interior design and touch quality (the structure of the interior holds up and wears well).

-I wouldn't call not having idrive a benefit though, CIC Idrive is pretty great IMO. Much better than the nav systems from e46/e39 era which are horrible.
-Lack of DCT sucks for e39... I know everyone here is a 6MT #racerbro #madfeelz but DCT is fukkin awesome and the option to have it is a great thing.
- E90 is also a pretty damn reliable car. Everyone will lose their shit over rod bearings and throttle actuators but big picture these are more reliable day in, day out than any M car before it.
-Steering is better on e90 (not saying much)
-s62 feels choked up top and doesn't actually rev much higher than a pushrod v8. Kinda feels like one actually.
-e90 is significantly lighter and smaller in dimensions.

Big difference for me is the looks. e90 is an ok looking car with the LCI update and comp package but its not in the class of an e39 M5. To actually use I would have the e90, but I would rather enjoy the e39 I think.
By skipping iDrive, you limit the chances of a major expense down the road if it were to crash, which takes most of the controls with it. Very expensive to fix. Plus, the nav in the e90 is outdated now anyway.
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Old Fri, May-19-2017, 05:33:07 PM   #43
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Default Re: The Greatest BMW Sedan Ever?

I don't use the factory Nav systems in any of my cars anymore.. I just listen to the turn by turn guidance on google maps/waze:

http://www.m3forum.net/m3forum/showthread.php?t=556679
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Old Fri, May-19-2017, 05:35:54 PM   #44
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Default Re: The Greatest BMW Sedan Ever?

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Originally Posted by racingbmwm3 View Post
I'll agree the E90 is less driver oriented. But, on the E39: The shifter sucks. The seat trim/switch plate is always broken. NAV is a joke. Door cards despite being all leather have lots of problems, but maybe that's just an issue in wetter climates like PNW?

For sure the E39 is leagues above the E46 in quality and how well it's aged, but I don't really agree on the E90. Excluding the full leather option which isn't ever going to be found in a 3 series.
Shifter sucks? How's that? You mean because the throws are long? If so, yes they are long. What they also are is in keeping with the character of the car. Having short, notchy throws on the M5 is like having a stiff suspension-- trying to turn the car into something it isn't (an M3).

I've never seen a broken seat trim/switch plate? In fact, not even sure what part you're talking about? Or door card for that matter? I hit up the e39 section of M5board every day, and have never seen either of these issue mentioned.

All built in nav is a joke. If it's not waze, wgaf. But, a friend of mine owns an e90 and an e39. He made a fun video comparing navigation calculation times on his two cars from cold start and the recalculation time:


The MKIV nav (e46/e39) is actually hugely functionally awesome. If it had cop locations, it would be my favorite navigation interface-- speed dependent next directions, clear diagrams of what you do, instant route calculation/recalculation, and doesn't talk too ****ing much to the point that I stop listening to it.

But, I end up using Waze in every car I drive of any age, because cop locations are more important to me anything else by a huge margin.
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Last edited by Obioban; Fri, May-19-2017 at 05:40:41 PM.
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Old Fri, May-19-2017, 05:49:36 PM   #45
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Default Re: The Greatest BMW Sedan Ever?

Idrive does a lot more than nav. I never use the nav in my car but I do use the interface for navigating music on my phone played through the car including sat radio, texts, phone interface etc.

CIC+ Idrive is far superior to anything BMW had before for integrating all the other functions beyond navigation that modern cars must do.

and no your aftermarket solution does not count. Most people have no clue or interest in tweaking their navigation unit.
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Old Fri, May-19-2017, 06:01:15 PM   #46
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Default Re: The Greatest BMW Sedan Ever?

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Idrive does a lot more than nav. I never use the nav in my car but I do use the interface for navigating music on my phone played through the car including sat radio, texts, phone interface etc.

CIC+ Idrive is far superior to anything BMW had before for integrating all the other functions beyond navigation that modern cars must do.

and no your aftermarket solution does not count. Most people have no clue or interest in tweaking their navigation unit.
My bluetooth phone interface is the factory BMW bluetooth phone interface

My satellite radio/ipod interface is aftermarket, but there's no tweaking necessary-- you just plug it into the CD changer input in trunk. Et Voila





That said, I'm looking to move it to an android head unit once the model specific (not aftermarket looking) ones mature. I love the idea of integrated waze, integrated YaV1, integrated Harry's GPS lap timer on track, etc. I can't imagine anything from any car maker coming closer to competing with that functionality.
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Old Fri, May-19-2017, 06:44:48 PM   #47
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Default Re: The Greatest BMW Sedan Ever?

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Originally Posted by Obioban View Post
Shifter sucks? How's that? You mean because the throws are long? If so, yes they are long. What they also are is in keeping with the character of the car. Having short, notchy throws on the M5 is like having a stiff suspension-- trying to turn the car into something it isn't (an M3).

I've never seen a broken seat trim/switch plate? In fact, not even sure what part you're talking about? Or door card for that matter? I hit up the e39 section of M5board every day, and have never seen either of these issue mentioned.

All built in nav is a joke. If it's not waze, wgaf. But, a friend of mine owns an e90 and an e39. He made a fun video comparing navigation calculation times on his two cars from cold start and the recalculation time:

Nav.m4v - YouTube

The MKIV nav (e46/e39) is actually hugely functionally awesome. If it had cop locations, it would be my favorite navigation interface-- speed dependent next directions, clear diagrams of what you do, instant route calculation/recalculation, and doesn't talk too ****ing much to the point that I stop listening to it.

But, I end up using Waze in every car I drive of any age, because cop locations are more important to me anything else by a huge margin.
Yes, the mile between shifts is annoying. The E46 M3 was almost just as bad. even 25% less throw and 50% more feel to it would be sufficient. But that's something that can always be upgraded/modified, so not a huge complaint. The seats and doorcards are just general E39 things, nothing specific to M5. the M5 bolsters probably do a much better job of protecting the trim from getting broken.
Door cards, as I mentioned is probably something climate specific. But you've never seen anything regarding the vapor barrier seal allowing rain into the car? If that isn't addressed or noticed, eventually the door cards get moldy or fall apart. Again, another fixable issue like the shifter.

Yes, I totally agree on NAV and iDrive being waste of dash when phones do a far superior job.
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Old Fri, May-19-2017, 06:56:13 PM   #48
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Default Re: The Greatest BMW Sedan Ever?

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Yes, the mile between shifts is annoying. The E46 M3 was almost just as bad. even 25% less throw and 50% more feel to it would be sufficient. But that's something that can always be upgraded/modified, so not a huge complaint. The seats and doorcards are just general E39 things, nothing specific to M5. the M5 bolsters probably do a much better job of protecting the trim from getting broken.
Door cards, as I mentioned is probably something climate specific. But you've never seen anything regarding the vapor barrier seal allowing rain into the car? If that isn't addressed or noticed, eventually the door cards get moldy or fall apart. Again, another fixable issue like the shifter.

Yes, I totally agree on NAV and iDrive being waste of dash when phones do a far superior job.
Lol, you might be talking to the wrong person with throw distance-- I like a long throw. My M5 came with a ZHP knob and Z3 lever-- I took it off and went back to stock. My M3 coupe has a 20% reduction kit. I have an Auto Solutions 0% reduction kit waiting to me to have some time to install it.

I replace the vapor barriers whenever window regulators are required (~100,000 mile intervals), so maybe that's why I haven't seen them go bad. Certainly there's never been rain in my car!
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Old Fri, May-19-2017, 09:12:43 PM   #49
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Default Re: The Greatest BMW Sedan Ever?

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Lol, you might be talking to the wrong person with throw distance-- I like a long throw. My M5 came with a ZHP knob and Z3 lever-- I took it off and went back to stock. My M3 coupe has a 20% reduction kit. I have an Auto Solutions 0% reduction kit waiting to me to have some time to install it.

I replace the vapor barriers whenever window regulators are required (~100,000 mile intervals), so maybe that's why I haven't seen them go bad. Certainly there's never been rain in my car!


didn't know e39 regulators went bad. thought that was just an e46 and e53 thing.
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Old Fri, May-19-2017, 09:34:57 PM   #50
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Default Re: The Greatest BMW Sedan Ever?

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didn't know e39 regulators went bad. thought that was just an e46 and e53 thing.
BMW has a long tradition of failing regulators. It's a consistent as kidney grills.
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Discussing The Greatest BMW Sedan Ever? in the Off Topic Forum - Place to discuss this and that. Note: We also have "request to join" forums: Guns and Fitness.
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