BMW M3 Forum
BMW M3 Forum BMW M3 Gallery BMW M3 Reviews BMW M3 Social Groups BMW M3 Chat M3Forum Sponsors >>
Loading


Mobile M3forum
Go Back   BMW M3 Forum.com (E30 M3 | E36 M3 | E46 M3 | E92 M3 | F80/X) > BMW M3 Discussions > E46 M3 (2001-2006)
Tire Rack Buy Winter Tires Now!
Not a member? Register Now!
Register Gallery All Albums Garage Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Calendar FAQ

E46 M3 (2001-2006) Engine: S54 - Max Hp: 333 hp at 7,900 rpm / 262 lb/ft at 4,900 rpm
Total Produced: 45,000+ - Years Produced: 2001 to 2006.


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old Wed, Oct-11-2017, 06:55:42 PM   #21
mercedesc63
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 95
Reputation: 0 mercedesc63 is on a distinguished road

United States




Default Re: 13.5F/13R & 19's - most comfortable suspension avail?

Quote:
Originally Posted by aznbo187 View Post
With the popular 13.5 front & 13" rear suspension setup that's moderate, what is the most comfortable daily suspension setup with 19's? Prefer feedback from those with multiple setups on their cars as comfort can be very subjective.

Say, given a $3k budget. No track days, some weekend canyon carving duties.
My PSS10 on 18's on the lowest possible setting rear and .5 higher in front and softest setting 2 rides better than stock in the way that the dampening/rebound is crisp not bouncy like stock.

It would feel even better with stock sway bars/links I currently have GC f/r and it's very stiff.
__________________
2002 E46 M3 Jet Black/Black
Red Brembo BBK 355/345 4 pot
OG BBS LM 245 front/275 rear
H&R RSS Coilover/GC Camber Plates
Titanium Eisenmann Section 2
Miestershaft Eisenmann Ti Section 3
Ground Control Front/Rear Sway Bar
Ground Control Front End links
AOA Rear Adjustable Arms
CSL Front Tower bar
Painted Jet Black Kidney/Side Grilles
Valentine (1.85) Hardwired
Euro bumper (no reflectors)

Last edited by mercedesc63; Wed, Oct-11-2017 at 07:02:08 PM.
Jump to top mercedesc63 is online now   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Register now and remove these ads
Old Wed, Oct-11-2017, 07:10:17 PM   #22
Obioban
Moderator
 
Obioban's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 33,878
In the garage:
Reputation: 54 Obioban has a spectacular aura about
Location: SE PA

United States




Default Re: 13.5F/13R & 19's - most comfortable suspension avail?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mercedesc63 View Post
My PSS10 on 18's on the lowest possible setting rear and .5 higher in front and softest setting 2 rides better than stock in the way that the dampening/rebound is crisp not bouncy like stock.

It would feel even better with stock sway bars/links I currently have GC f/r and it's very stiff.
Your car would ride and handle much better than it currently does if you raised it.
__________________

Current Cars: 2005 IR/IR M3, 2001 LMB/blk M5, Wife's 6mt NA RWD e91, 04 M3 wagon
Past cars: 04 M3, 96 M3, S50B32 e36 M3 CM race car
Jump to top Obioban is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Wed, Oct-11-2017, 07:50:13 PM   #23
daytonaviolet
OEM CSL Whoore
 
daytonaviolet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 23,072
Reputation: 0 daytonaviolet is on a distinguished road
Location: Bay Area, CA

Philippines




Default Re: 13.5F/13R & 19's - most comfortable suspension avail?

i'm all for comfort as i don't track much. i can only speak for bilsteins as i've had pss9 and now on pss10. it's been my DD for 13yrs and to me it's comfortable but depends on your settings. i believe my pss10's are set to 5fronts and 3rears (10 stiffest) with 13.5" fronts and 13.25" rears and it feels like oem.
__________________
Click my sig and view my pics!


Tischer aka GetBmwParts
Jump to top daytonaviolet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Wed, Oct-11-2017, 10:37:36 PM   #24
whips333
Registered User
 
whips333's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 686
In the garage:
Reputation: 0 whips333 is on a distinguished road
Location: New Britain

United States




Default Re: 13.5F/13R & 19's - most comfortable suspension avail?

You guys are making me feel good about my TCK's again...thank you. I watched a couple videos from Shaikh from Fat Cat Motorsports last week and I think he wasn't too impressed with TCK.
Jump to top whips333 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Wed, Oct-11-2017, 11:47:04 PM   #25
EricSMG
40 something
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 10,395
Reputation: 0 EricSMG is on a distinguished road
Location: San Diego

United States




Default Re: 13.5F/13R & 19's - most comfortable suspension avail?

Awesome thread. I must say that we've matured as a group over the years in that we can now discuss/compare Bilsteins, TCKs and Ohlins in a positive light.

Twentyseven and Obioban pretty much covered everything but I'll summarize having run all three myself:

1. TCKs = most comfortable with soft springs
2. PSS10s = razor sharp, racecar feel, firm and precise, excellent value, works best not super duper low
3. RT = most racecar-ish, firm and precise, very similar to the PSS10, works best really low, most expensive

From a behind-the-wheel standpoint it's quite remarkable how similar the PSS10 and Ohlins really are from the bump/rebound adjustment, beehive front springs, monotube design and the fact that they work with OE strut mounts (HUGE plus in my book). Either setup will be 'okay' comfort-wise but provide immense precision at speed. While both have a high-end feel, I would say that I like the RT slightly better except that it just wants to be too low for me. I don't like my cars low and the RT is meant to run low.

That said, the TCKs are definitely more comfortable as long as you keep the spring rates soft. Once the rates get up into the RT range I think they suck and would go monotube all day long. For best road manners do what Obioban said: 300 fronts with 400 rears and TMS street plates. The only thing I don't like about the TCKs is that they don't fit the OE strut mounts and that really bothers me on principle. It's laziness on their part.

Oh - I would never run anything KW on my cars - BTDT - it's junk in my book.

Quote:
Originally Posted by whips333 View Post
You guys are making me feel good about my TCK's again...thank you. I watched a couple videos from Shaikh from Fat Cat Motorsports last week and I think he wasn't too impressed with TCK.
Point me to these videos?

He can do great things with Bilsteins and so it's easy to knock a Koni. From my point of view his real magic is in his Ripple Reducer where small bypass holes are drilled into the piston, thus reducing the initial 'stiction' of the shock, allowing it to absorb the really small vibratory type stuff - calms things in the cabin notably.

But the truth is that at the end of the day, a standard Koni has really nice valving curves for all around good street manners, and, chassis control. Bilstein differs in that they go super heavy on the rebound low/mid force and this is what gives them that 'locked down, precision' feel, but overall road comfort suffers as a result. What FatCat does, essentially, is bring the factory Billy curves more or less in-line with the Koni curve - soften the low/mid rebound a bit and you've a Koni.

All that said, the "problem" with a Koni (twin-tube), that cannot be fixed, is its tendency to develop hysteresis, easily seen in dyno curves. This is where the big bad monotubes are far better - hard driving, rapid damper movements. But for the street? Eh... mostly just rhetoric.
__________________


'04 SG/Black 6MT || '04 JB/IR SMG

Last edited by EricSMG; Thu, Oct-12-2017 at 02:59:07 AM.
Jump to top EricSMG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Thu, Oct-12-2017, 02:54:38 AM   #26
EricSMG
40 something
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 10,395
Reputation: 0 EricSMG is on a distinguished road
Location: San Diego

United States




Default Re: 13.5F/13R & 19's - most comfortable suspension avail?

Edit: found the FCM video of the TCKs. He dynos an E36 M3 DA strut and also shows an AST DA strut, and, interestingly, a stock E46 M3 sachs strut (which I'm betting is mine as I regognize the graph and I doubt anyone else has sent their OE strut to him).

So, yeah - the DA 36M TCK strut is kinda funky on compression. It gets MEGA stiff and almost all of the adjustment happens at high speed rather than low speed, not really what you want. I will say that at the lower settings the compression curve looks pretty good with a nice blow off. It also has really, really bad hysteresis - you can hear the oil cavitating inside the strut at high speeds. This is most likely the result of the ultra low gas pressure at only 8lbs - this explains why a TCK strut falls into itself without a spring installed - I've wondered about that for over 10 yrs!!. An over the counter Koni has about 22lbs of gas, comparatively.

So, good with soft springs and low settings but not good cranked up/stiff springs, which has been my experience and the dyno confirms this.
__________________


'04 SG/Black 6MT || '04 JB/IR SMG

Last edited by EricSMG; Thu, Oct-12-2017 at 03:02:01 AM.
Jump to top EricSMG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Thu, Oct-12-2017, 05:28:38 AM   #27
AW///M3
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 214
Reputation: 0 AW///M3 is on a distinguished road

United States




Default Re: 13.5F/13R & 19's - most comfortable suspension avail?

very informative thread! thanks!

TCK seems like the best option for a street car, but not being able to run stock front strut mounts makes it a deal breaker IMO. From my research all camber plates add NVH

Will stock front strut mounts and RE RSMs work with Bilstein Pss10's?
Jump to top AW///M3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Thu, Oct-12-2017, 06:59:07 AM   #28
whips333
Registered User
 
whips333's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 686
In the garage:
Reputation: 0 whips333 is on a distinguished road
Location: New Britain

United States




Default Re: 13.5F/13R & 19's - most comfortable suspension avail?

Quote:
Originally Posted by EricSMG View Post
Edit: found the FCM video of the TCKs. He dynos an E36 M3 DA strut and also shows an AST DA strut, and, interestingly, a stock E46 M3 sachs strut (which I'm betting is mine as I regognize the graph and I doubt anyone else has sent their OE strut to him).

So, yeah - the DA 36M TCK strut is kinda funky on compression. It gets MEGA stiff and almost all of the adjustment happens at high speed rather than low speed, not really what you want. I will say that at the lower settings the compression curve looks pretty good with a nice blow off. It also has really, really bad hysteresis - you can hear the oil cavitating inside the strut at high speeds. This is most likely the result of the ultra low gas pressure at only 8lbs - this explains why a TCK strut falls into itself without a spring installed - I've wondered about that for over 10 yrs!!. An over the counter Koni has about 22lbs of gas, comparatively.

So, good with soft springs and low settings but not good cranked up/stiff springs, which has been my experience and the dyno confirms this.
Yup, you definitely found the FCM video that I saw. Exactly how you explained it is how he explained it as well. I also saw a video when he talked about meeting up with you to set your car up for you as well. I love my TCKs SA but I want a sharper more racecar feel even though my car is my daily.

I had them set on half a turn from full soft and on 450/500 springs but it is way to comfortable for my driving style. I now have it set at half a turn from full hard and it feels a little more sharper to me although FCMs dyno shows otherwise. It's only been a week tho so I need more time behind the wheel with the new settings.

I plan on getting PSS10s when my TCK's finally give out but that might be a long time from now because like Obioban mentioned I have between 60-70,000 miles on them and they don't feel like they will need a rebuild anytime soon.
Jump to top whips333 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Thu, Oct-12-2017, 02:36:52 PM   #29
KS Golfer
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 533
Reputation: 0 KS Golfer is on a distinguished road
Location: Wichita

United States




Default Re: 13.5F/13R & 19's - most comfortable suspension avail?

isn't there anybody that makes a shortened body (or remote res) that will do custom valving? i think you want the high-end internals and shortened body for a lowered street car, but get it valved for street use?

no?
__________________
Jump to top KS Golfer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Thu, Oct-12-2017, 02:40:40 PM   #30
Obioban
Moderator
 
Obioban's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 33,878
In the garage:
Reputation: 54 Obioban has a spectacular aura about
Location: SE PA

United States




Default Re: 13.5F/13R & 19's - most comfortable suspension avail?

Quote:
Originally Posted by AW///M3 View Post
very informative thread! thanks!

TCK seems like the best option for a street car, but not being able to run stock front strut mounts makes it a deal breaker IMO. From my research all camber plates add NVH

Will stock front strut mounts and RE RSMs work with Bilstein Pss10's?
You can run stock e36 M3 strut hats on the e46 with the TCKs, if you find the camber plates on the market add too much NHV. TMS's street plates are pretty quiet, though.
__________________

Current Cars: 2005 IR/IR M3, 2001 LMB/blk M5, Wife's 6mt NA RWD e91, 04 M3 wagon
Past cars: 04 M3, 96 M3, S50B32 e36 M3 CM race car
Jump to top Obioban is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT. The time now is 06:49:18 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
M3Forum.com and M3forum.net is in no way sponsored, endorsed or affiliated by or with BMW NA / BMW AG or any of it's subsidiaries or vendors.
BMW and M3 (E90 M3 | E92 M3 | E93 M3 | E46 M3 | E36 M3 | E30 M3) are registered trademarks of BMW AG.
M3Forum Terms of Service
Copyright 1999-2017 M3Forum.com
Discussing 13.5F/13R & 19's - most comfortable suspension avail? in the E46 M3 (2001-2006) Forum - Engine: S54 - Max Hp: 333 hp at 7,900 rpm / 262 lb/ft at 4,900 rpm
Total Produced: 45,000+ - Years Produced: 2001 to 2006. at BMW M3 Forum.com (E30 M3 | E36 M3 | E46 M3 | E92 M3 | F80/X)