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E46 M3 (2001-2006) Engine: S54 - Max Hp: 333 hp at 7,900 rpm / 262 lb/ft at 4,900 rpm
Total Produced: 45,000+ - Years Produced: 2001 to 2006.


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Old Wed, Oct-11-2017, 02:11:07 PM   #11
rpearl555
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Default Re: 13.5F/13R & 19's - most comfortable suspension avail?

What do you guys think about bilstein pss10?
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Old Wed, Oct-11-2017, 02:16:53 PM   #12
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Default Re: 13.5F/13R & 19's - most comfortable suspension avail?

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TCK. Anything Koni based with conservative rates will give the best overall ride quality on these cars, whether it be a sport damper paired with stock/Eibach lowering spring or an SA/DA coilover kit depending on your budget.

Ohlins R&T is very controlled, but it doesn't provide as much COMFORT. (I actually love them; have a set ordered for my own car). Have owned tons of suspension setups across 13 BMW's and after four sets of TCK's they always trump everything else for a daily.. my E36 on DA's (300F/400R) still impresses me and feels better than many new sports cars.
Yeah, agreed. The Ohlins are comfortable for what they are, but not as comfortable as the TCKs.

They're also not great for a DD with their 30-40,000 mile rebuild interval, at $1600 per rebuild.

And, they don't play nicely with camber plates or large front tires AT ALL. Though, I've been talking with TMS about a variant of their new hybrid plates that would play nicely with the Ohlins. No camber plate currently on the market works very well with them, though-- they all raise the shock mount point to increase bump travel (good with most other setups). Unfortunately, the Ohlins are designed to increase bump travel already, via a shorter shock body, to work nicely with the stock hats. The shorter shock body also gives them very limited total travel, so to work properly (bump travel vs droop travel) with current camber plates you have to go to a very low ride height... at which point you've ruined the suspension geometry. It's a mess

The perfect camber plate for the Ohlins would raise the spring perch (so you could get the spring above the tire, for more tire clearance) but keep the stock shock mount height.

All of which is to say, the Ohlins are not a great track setup, either, if you're serious enough to have camber plates... which most people will be after a couple of events.

Former TCK owner, current Ohlins owner here. Machined my own parts to make the Ohlins actually function as I want for track use, and would never consider them an option for a DD.
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Old Wed, Oct-11-2017, 02:22:35 PM   #13
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Default Re: 13.5F/13R & 19's - most comfortable suspension avail?

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What do you guys think about bilstein pss10?
Had it on my previous E46 M3 and PSS9 on another. Very good kit - great build quality, lifetime warranty, wide range of adjustments. However it is very much a dual duty setup; extremely capable on both street and track. It can feel a bit aggressive at slower speeds which is largely due to the digressive valving profile. It's a high pressure monotube setup so it simply won't be as comfortable on rough roads as Koni's twin tube design. But they are razor sharp and very predictable.

I would actually consider them a cheaper and more durable alternative to the Ohlins R&T (albeit a step down in overall performance).
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Old Wed, Oct-11-2017, 02:35:01 PM   #14
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Default Re: 13.5F/13R & 19's - most comfortable suspension avail?

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Yeah, agreed. The Ohlins are comfortable for what they are, but not as comfortable as the TCKs.

They're also not great for a DD with their 30-40,000 mile rebuild interval, at $1600 per rebuild.

And, they don't play nicely with camber plates or large front tires AT ALL. Though, I've been talking with TMS about a variant of their new hybrid plates that would play nicely with the Ohlins. No camber plate currently on the market works very well with them, though-- they all raise the shock mount point to increase bump travel (good with most other setups). Unfortunately, the Ohlins are designed to increase bump travel already, via a shorter shock body, to work nicely with the stock hats. The shorter shock body also gives them very limited total travel, so to work properly (bump travel vs droop travel) with current camber plates you have to go to a very low ride height... at which point you've ruined the suspension geometry. It's a mess

The perfect camber plate for the Ohlins would raise the spring perch (so you could get the spring above the tire, for more tire clearance) but keep the stock shock mount height.

All of which is to say, the Ohlins are not a great track setup, either, if you're serious enough to have camber plates... which most people will be after a couple of events.

Former TCK owner, current Ohlins owner here. Machined my own parts to make the Ohlins actually function as I want for track use, and would never consider them an option for a DD.
Agree with everything above. Ohlins are the perfect choice for a weekend car. Makes the M3 feel more like a racecar with a high end (JRZ, MCS, Moton, etc) but takes some of the edges off the extreme compromises that come with running high end dampers on the street. Caveat emptor - not for everyone at their price point. Track sluts definitely will not love them.

Was actually thinking the Dinan camber plates may be the "best" solution to use with them? Adds a little stack height but the struts are so short and run so low you can give up 1/4" plus they are inexpensive and suit the all OEM mount ethos..

If TCK is more streetcar for the track and Ohlins are racecar for the street, PSS10 will split that difference. You'll get the durability and warranty of TCK but with the more aggressive feel of the Ohlins. All three are great setups, they just have different priorities. Everyone who has owned any of them will all say good things. TCK always win the street argument though. You literally cannot go wrong with them. Unless you spend ALL of your time at the track, and even then they still work reasonably well. They just can't keep up with a monotube under the most extreme loads.
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Old Wed, Oct-11-2017, 02:46:36 PM   #15
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Default Re: 13.5F/13R & 19's - most comfortable suspension avail?

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Agree with everything above. Ohlins are the perfect choice for a weekend car. Makes the M3 feel more like a racecar with a high end (JRZ, MCS, Moton, etc) but takes some of the edges off the extreme compromises that come with running high end dampers on the street. Caveat emptor - not for everyone at their price point. Track sluts definitely will not love them.

Was actually thinking the Dinan camber plates may be the "best" solution to use with them? Adds a little stack height but the struts are so short and run so low you can give up 1/4" plus they are inexpensive and suit the all OEM mount ethos..

If TCK is more streetcar for the track and Ohlins are racecar for the street, PSS10 will split that difference. You'll get the durability and warranty of TCK but with the more aggressive feel of the Ohlins. All three are great setups, they just have different priorities. Everyone who has owned any of them will all say good things. TCK always win the street argument though. You literally cannot go wrong with them. Unless you spend ALL of your time at the track, and even then they still work reasonably well. They just can't keep up with a monotube under the most extreme loads.
Even on track, I think the TCKs do the best of all the DDable setups. For a dual purpose (DD/track) car, I don't think they can be beat.

The Dinans aren't really camber plates, since they're not adjustable. With the decreased ride height plus the dinan's, you'd probably be at a decent track camber, but probably too much for the street.

The PSS10s split the difference, but they pretty much need to be run at stock ride height to function properly. Bump travel isn't their friend.

But, yeah, since my car has become a sunny day weekend car above all else, I do think the Ohlin's are the best match. If TMS ends up making these hybrid plates as I'm hoping they will, it should be a kickass track setup as well (decent as is, with the parts I made myself). Every Ohlins owner should buy them, if moving off the stock hats
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Old Wed, Oct-11-2017, 02:55:54 PM   #16
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Default Re: 13.5F/13R & 19's - most comfortable suspension avail?

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Even on track, I think the TCKs do the best of all the DDable setups. For a dual purpose (DD/track) car, I don't think they can be beat.

The Dinans aren't really camber plates, since they're not adjustable. With the decreased ride height plus the dinan's, you'd probably be at a decent track camber, but probably too much for the street.

The PSS10s split the difference, but they pretty much need to be run at stock ride height to function properly. Bump travel isn't their friend.

But, yeah, since my car has become a sunny day weekend car above all else, I do think the Ohlin's are the best match. If TMS ends up making these hybrid plates as I'm hoping they will, it should be a kickass track setup as well (decent as is, with the parts I made myself). Every Ohlins owner should buy them, if moving off the stock hats
Yup exactly. The only situation where TCK's aren't at the top is if your car sees more track miles than anything else. They are great for dual duty and non-competition. But like you said, at that point if you're serious enough then streetability isn't your main priority.

PSS10 work fine if you only want to lower the car 1" or so.

Ohlins suit my application - purely a therapy car and no need for lots of camber or square tires.
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Old Wed, Oct-11-2017, 03:44:33 PM   #17
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Default Re: 13.5F/13R & 19's - most comfortable suspension avail?

Ah yes now I remember reading about the issue with pss10 height adjustability.
The only thing stopping me from a coilover set up for my DD is the rebuild intervals. I just want something with a lifetime warranty that's comfortable and height adjustable. With the warranty I wouldn't have to worry about rebuilds. At least that's the impression I get.
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Old Wed, Oct-11-2017, 03:49:58 PM   #18
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Default Re: 13.5F/13R & 19's - most comfortable suspension avail?

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Ah yes now I remember reading about the issue with pss10 height adjustability.
The only thing stopping me from a coilover set up for my DD is the rebuild intervals. I just want something with a lifetime warranty that's comfortable and height adjustable. With the warranty I wouldn't have to worry about rebuilds. At least that's the impression I get.
Yep, lifetime warranty on the TCKs.

Though I hadn't had to make any claims on mine at 125,000 miles (including winter use and thousands of track miles), as they were still functioning properly.
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Old Wed, Oct-11-2017, 05:52:39 PM   #19
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Default Re: 13.5F/13R & 19's - most comfortable suspension avail?

The TMS street camber plate works with the stock Öhlins springs and should be the same stack height as the OE top mounts. Basically, it's a stock camber plate, but with adjustability. The only issue is when you want to convert the Öhlins to a shorter diameter spring.


IDK how Obioban has 125k on a set of TCKs. I tested a set of SA rear dampers off a car with less than 100k, and they were completely blown, wouldn't rebound and needed a rebuild. TCK probably won't warranty blown dampers.
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Old Wed, Oct-11-2017, 06:35:22 PM   #20
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Default Re: 13.5F/13R & 19's - most comfortable suspension avail?

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The TMS street camber plate works with the stock Öhlins springs and should be the same stack height as the OE top mounts. Basically, it's a stock camber plate, but with adjustability. The only issue is when you want to convert the Öhlins to a shorter diameter spring.


IDK how Obioban has 125k on a set of TCKs. I tested a set of SA rear dampers off a car with less than 100k, and they were completely blown, wouldn't rebound and needed a rebuild. TCK probably won't warranty blown dampers.
Koni will warranty a blown shock-- my mom blew out a koni on her 325xi and it was covered (and TCK warranty claims go through Koni).

But, yeah, I suppose part of the situation is the stock Ohlin springs don't let you run more than a 245 up front. Convert to a smaller diameter spring to fit more, and the camber plate you're talking about no longer works.
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Discussing 13.5F/13R & 19's - most comfortable suspension avail? in the E46 M3 (2001-2006) Forum - Engine: S54 - Max Hp: 333 hp at 7,900 rpm / 262 lb/ft at 4,900 rpm
Total Produced: 45,000+ - Years Produced: 2001 to 2006. at BMW M3 Forum.com (E30 M3 | E36 M3 | E46 M3 | E92 M3 | F80/X)