BMW M3 Forum
BMW M3 Forum BMW M3 Gallery BMW M3 Reviews BMW M3 Social Groups BMW M3 Chat M3Forum Sponsors >>
Loading


Mobile M3forum
Go Back   BMW M3 Forum.com (E30 M3 | E36 M3 | E46 M3 | E92 M3 | F80/X) > BMW M3 Discussions > E46 M3 (2001-2006)
Tire Rack Buy Winter Tires Now!
Not a member? Register Now!
Register Gallery All Albums Garage Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Calendar FAQ

E46 M3 (2001-2006) Engine: S54 - Max Hp: 333 hp at 7,900 rpm / 262 lb/ft at 4,900 rpm
Total Produced: 45,000+ - Years Produced: 2001 to 2006.


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old Tue, Oct-10-2017, 08:41:09 PM   #1
Brett72586
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 7
Reputation: 0 Brett72586 is on a distinguished road

United States




Default CSL intake question

Hello,

Long time lurker, even long time owner of the E46 chassis, new to me e46 m3.

I recently just got a 2005 m3. I plan on going with 288/280 schrick cams and a karbonius CSL intake this winter. I know there are a lot of DIYs out there but with the e46 chassis getting old there is A LOT of information out there. Some of it pertains to what i am asking and some of it does not, so i am hoping to stop wasting time on the googles. I know some people just buy the air box, modify the wiring harness, get the alpha N and call it a day.

Others though get the CSL DME, CSL wiring harness, CSL fuel rails, etc.

I think I plan on going CSL DME, harness, and fuel rails but i cant find out why people do get the fuel rails. I understand the DME part and the wiring harness part. I am just curious on the fuel rails and if there are other "OE" parts i should consider. I want to do this right the first time around without regrets or having that thought in the back of my head that it isnt done correctly. Yes, I know ECS has a CSL package for 10k, but cmon...

Some stats about said new M3:
2005 mystic blue with 74,000 miles
SMG
19" apex wheels
all new bushing though out drive line/suspension (upkeep in maintenance in general)
ZCP package upgrade (brakes/steering rack)
TMS power pullies
AFE Stage 2 CAI
status gruppe headers, OEM Euro 200 cell cat, status gruppe scza muffler
TMS rear adjust trailing/control arms
alcentera steering wheel
stainless steel brake lines
Evolve tune
OE euro front bumper
new OE shocks/struts with eiback pro springs (debating on going coil overs over the winter)

This winter i will be accomplishing rod bearing and schrick cams with two different tunes for premium and 100 octane.

Hoping to accomplish CSL intake and OE CSL trunk this winter as well. Maybe a lip of some sort?

thanks for the advice - can post pictures if desired
Jump to top Brett72586 is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Register now and remove these ads
Old Tue, Oct-10-2017, 09:02:07 PM   #2
usdmej
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 2,414
Reputation: 0 usdmej is on a distinguished road
Location: bay area

United States




Default Re: CSL intake question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brett72586 View Post
Hello,

I think I plan on going CSL DME, harness, and fuel rails but i cant find out why people do get the fuel rails.
get used to blindly spending money

there's a huge thread on CSL airboxes with driveability issues. i understand people piecing together a carbon airbox setup when good deals come up, but i've no idea how people that actually do the research still go through with it
__________________
Jump to top usdmej is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Tue, Oct-10-2017, 09:21:33 PM   #3
terraphantm
Moderator
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 10,732
In the garage:
Reputation: 11 terraphantm is on a distinguished road
Location: Philadelphia

United States




Default Re: CSL intake question

Nobody gets the CSL fuel rail (which is the same as the M3 fuel rail). Some of us got the CSL idle rail to use the CSL map sensor. Not much point in that anymore though since the OE MAP sensor is discontinued (so you may as well just use any aftermarket sensor and T-off the brake booster).

I wouldn't bother with the wiring harness either. Since you'll have to use a custom map sensor, you'll be modifying it (or building an adapter) anyway, and otherwise the wiring differences are minimal. And unless you get it cheap, I'd just modify a regular MSS54HP to CSL spec rather than buying a real CSL DME. Having examined both, there's no physical or electrical difference beyond the flap driver.

Quote:
Originally Posted by usdmej View Post
there's a huge thread on CSL airboxes with driveability issues. i understand people piecing together a carbon airbox setup when good deals come up, but i've no idea how people that actually do the research still go through with it
Those drivability issues are largely exaggerated and mostly a result of people looking for issues after the conversion (stock setup isn't 100% perfect either, especially at low RPMs). If you hit the throttle in the right way while Saturn and Mars are aligned with the Earth, then you can induce a very minor hiccup, and some minor tuning can minimize / eliminate said hiccup. Otherwise there are no drivability issues to speak of - going 3 years now.
__________________
Jump to top terraphantm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Tue, Oct-10-2017, 09:58:28 PM   #4
Karbon
Back to Basics
 
Karbon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 775
Reputation: 0 Karbon is on a distinguished road
Location: SF

United States




Default Re: CSL intake question

+1 to everything Terra stated above.

Here are the essentials and the best setup in terms of price and quality:

Karbonius CSL Airbox (or Streamline depending on how it turns out)
ITG CSL Filter
MSS54HP 2003.5-2006 (loaded with CSL software)
OE CSL Temp Sensor
AEM MAP sensor (spliced in)
Wiring for MAP sensor
Relocate brake booster line with appropriate tubing
Extend crankcase vent hose with appropriate tubing

Add-on which are not essential but (somewhat) recommended:
OE CSL Control Unit + wiring
OE CSL Brake Booster Valve
OE CSL Vent Hose

2003.5-2004 are the best cars to have for the conversion since they should have the MSS54HP DME and the 2001-2003 intake boots.
Jump to top Karbon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Tue, Oct-10-2017, 10:12:20 PM   #5
Brett72586
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 7
Reputation: 0 Brett72586 is on a distinguished road

United States




Default Re: CSL intake question

Quote:
Originally Posted by terraphantm View Post
Nobody gets the CSL fuel rail (which is the same as the M3 fuel rail). Some of us got the CSL idle rail to use the CSL map sensor. Not much point in that anymore though since the OE MAP sensor is discontinued (so you may as well just use any aftermarket sensor and T-off the brake booster).

I wouldn't bother with the wiring harness either. Since you'll have to use a custom map sensor, you'll be modifying it (or building an adapter) anyway, and otherwise the wiring differences are minimal. And unless you get it cheap, I'd just modify a regular MSS54HP to CSL spec rather than buying a real CSL DME. Having examined both, there's no physical or electrical difference beyond the flap driver.



Those drivability issues are largely exaggerated and mostly a result of people looking for issues after the conversion (stock setup isn't 100% perfect either, especially at low RPMs). If you hit the throttle in the right way while Saturn and Mars are aligned with the Earth, then you can induce a very minor hiccup, and some minor tuning can minimize / eliminate said hiccup. Otherwise there are no drivability issues to speak of - going 3 years now.
I was wondering if you were still around. I have a ton of your DIYs saved for m3/general E46 stuff. Top notch stuff. I have actually thought about making an account long time ago just to say thanks for helping the bmw/e46 community the way you do. I dont plan on getting the flap but i thought the DME was needed to avoid going alpha N. I have read huge threads saying 'YAY Alpha is the Shiz...or Alpha is complete garbage. what route did you go? You dont happen to have a CSL diy you made do you?! lol

Do you have cams by chance? how did the butt dyno feel once you finished it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Karbon View Post
+1 to everything Terra stated above.

Here are the essentials and the best setup in terms of price and quality:

Karbonius CSL Airbox (or Streamline depending on how it turns out)
ITG CSL Filter
MSS54HP 2003.5-2006 (loaded with CSL software)
OE CSL Temp Sensor
AEM MAP sensor (spliced in)
Wiring for MAP sensor
Relocate brake booster line with appropriate tubing
Extend crankcase vent hose with appropriate tubing

Add-on which are not essential but (somewhat) recommended:
OE CSL Control Unit + wiring
OE CSL Brake Booster Valve
OE CSL Vent Hose

2003.5-2004 are the best cars to have for the conversion since they should have the MSS54HP DME and the 2001-2003 intake boots.
Thanks for the info. This is basically what i was looking for. The nitty and gritty. Do you know where i can get the MSS54HP loaded with CSL software? i am going to start looking up the parts to buy/diys for them. I have a feeling this is going to be a multiple DIY use for things.
Jump to top Brett72586 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Tue, Oct-10-2017, 10:19:23 PM   #6
usdmej
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 2,414
Reputation: 0 usdmej is on a distinguished road
Location: bay area

United States




Default Re: CSL intake question

Quote:
Originally Posted by terraphantm View Post

Those drivability issues are largely exaggerated and mostly a result of people looking for issues after the conversion
i wish this were true, but my experience and others have been different. I've actually contacted you and also some big tuning names here for help and have been either ignored or turned down at some point in time for help on the matter.

i guess in the grand scheme of things, if you're able/willing to figure out the install/coding/troubleshooting on your own and have a second car . . . hell i still wouldnt recommend going through with it
__________________
Jump to top usdmej is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Tue, Oct-10-2017, 10:27:10 PM   #7
Karbon
Back to Basics
 
Karbon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 775
Reputation: 0 Karbon is on a distinguished road
Location: SF

United States




Default Re: CSL intake question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brett72586 View Post

Thanks for the info. This is basically what i was looking for. The nitty and gritty. Do you know where i can get the MSS54HP loaded with CSL software? i am going to start looking up the parts to buy/diys for them. I have a feeling this is going to be a multiple DIY use for things.
Someone in the coding section could probably help you load it if you already have a MSS54HP.

Edit: Actually another forum member made a tool for flashing software, but the website is down: msstuning.com


Last edited by Karbon; Tue, Oct-10-2017 at 10:36:01 PM.
Jump to top Karbon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Wed, Oct-11-2017, 06:50:57 PM   #8
Brett72586
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 7
Reputation: 0 Brett72586 is on a distinguished road

United States




Default Re: CSL intake question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Karbon View Post
Someone in the coding section could probably help you load it if you already have a MSS54HP.

Edit: Actually another forum member made a tool for flashing software, but the website is down: msstuning.com

MSS Flasher - YouTube
So, follow up question.

Lets say this site does come back one day and i can load the "csl" software. I also show it has alpha n. Does that mean i can literally just load/install the software, reload my evovle tune, and be done with the "programming" side of things?

Or does evovle need to update their tune (the cams will already be updated by this point in the evovle tune)
Jump to top Brett72586 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Wed, Oct-11-2017, 07:42:33 PM   #9
usdmej
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 2,414
Reputation: 0 usdmej is on a distinguished road
Location: bay area

United States




Default Re: CSL intake question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brett72586 View Post
So, follow up question.

Lets say this site does come back one day and i can load the "csl" software. I also show it has alpha n. Does that mean i can literally just load/install the software, reload my evovle tune, and be done with the "programming" side of things?

Or does evovle need to update their tune (the cams will already be updated by this point in the evovle tune)

the big name tuners will have their own proprietary software so you won't need MSS flasher to read/load tunes (although it appears that MSS has turned into a for profit tuning company under a different name which explains why the website is gone)
__________________
Jump to top usdmej is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Thu, Oct-12-2017, 01:29:12 AM   #10
terraphantm
Moderator
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 10,732
In the garage:
Reputation: 11 terraphantm is on a distinguished road
Location: Philadelphia

United States




Default Re: CSL intake question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brett72586 View Post
I was wondering if you were still around. I have a ton of your DIYs saved for m3/general E46 stuff. Top notch stuff. I have actually thought about making an account long time ago just to say thanks for helping the bmw/e46 community the way you do. I dont plan on getting the flap but i thought the DME was needed to avoid going alpha N. I have read huge threads saying 'YAY Alpha is the Shiz...or Alpha is complete garbage. what route did you go? You dont happen to have a CSL diy you made do you?! lol

Do you have cams by chance? how did the butt dyno feel once you finished it?
I'm using the OE MAP sensor with lightly modified CSL software modifications mostly come down to 6MT and disabled off knock adaptions (the car will still react to knock, it just won't store long term adaptions for it). Car drives pretty good. MAP sensor improves low throttle behavior in particular. Power is definitely up, which I attribute to the CSL being a bit more aggressively tuned. I don't have cams. I'd consider them if I can get a good price, but right now making more power isn't a priority.

If you're not planning on running the flap, you don't need a real CSL DME (technically you don't need one even with a flap, but I digress) - a normal MSS54HP will work fine with a MAP sensor if you flash it with the CSL software.
__________________

Last edited by terraphantm; Thu, Oct-12-2017 at 01:32:54 AM.
Jump to top terraphantm is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT. The time now is 09:18:11 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
M3Forum.com and M3forum.net is in no way sponsored, endorsed or affiliated by or with BMW NA / BMW AG or any of it's subsidiaries or vendors.
BMW and M3 (E90 M3 | E92 M3 | E93 M3 | E46 M3 | E36 M3 | E30 M3) are registered trademarks of BMW AG.
M3Forum Terms of Service
Copyright 1999-2017 M3Forum.com
Discussing CSL intake question in the E46 M3 (2001-2006) Forum - Engine: S54 - Max Hp: 333 hp at 7,900 rpm / 262 lb/ft at 4,900 rpm
Total Produced: 45,000+ - Years Produced: 2001 to 2006. at BMW M3 Forum.com (E30 M3 | E36 M3 | E46 M3 | E92 M3 | F80/X)