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E46 M3 (2001-2006) Engine: S54 - Max Hp: 333 hp at 7,900 rpm / 262 lb/ft at 4,900 rpm
Total Produced: 45,000+ - Years Produced: 2001 to 2006.


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Old Thu, Oct-12-2017, 03:09:22 AM   #1591
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Default Re: Official Dyno Thread

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Originally Posted by digger View Post
Euro cars are more like 250-260whp. Pretty much all European dynos are bhp estimates idk why but they do. Sometimes you see rwhp sometimes coastdown losses. Paul could show the same graph but rwhp next time he's there as means for comparison. Dyno dynamics just adds like fixed ~20% for "shoot_6" which is not the most scientific method lol
Trying not to turn the thread into a UK vs. US dyno figure debate, but Dynojet dyno's also apply a correction factor, hence the over inflated 'whp' figures. I believe the non-corrected raw 'whp' figure from a Dyno Dynamics are similar to that of a Mustang Dyno. FWIW my last run was 322 'WHP' non-corrected.

The large deltas you guys end up with I think all come down to starting with the catted headers and conservative US tune. Throw a set of Euro Headers on and a tune and you are in the 300HP area, which isn't too far away from my stock figure. And then, there's your higher ambient temps vs. UK to throw into the mix. Either way, you can't directly compare dyno figures, so like I always say, it's the delta that matters.
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Old Thu, Oct-12-2017, 06:48:12 AM   #1592
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Default Re: Official Dyno Thread

I'm just pointing out mis informed posts from others not aware of the apples vs oranges they are talking about. I've seen dyno dynamics ( properly setup) vs dyno jet within the same day and on a 250 to 275 hp engine the difference was just under 5%. It appears as the power level goes up the difference become much more apparent.
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Old Thu, Oct-12-2017, 07:47:25 AM   #1593
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Default Re: Official Dyno Thread

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Originally Posted by digger View Post
I'm just pointing out mis informed posts from others not aware of the apples vs oranges they are talking about. I've seen dyno dynamics ( properly setup) vs dyno jet within the same day and on a 250 to 275 hp engine the difference was just under 5%. It appears as the power level goes up the difference become much more apparent.
When talking dyno figures, it's a bunch of mixed fruit. Even dyno's of the same type/manufacturer can read differently, so again it's hard to compare. That's why the delta between runs is really the only accurate measurement you can base things on.

We should be discussing how to improve/lift the curve, rather than comparison of the absolute number - would be far more constructive
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Old Thu, Oct-12-2017, 09:48:08 AM   #1594
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Default Re: Official Dyno Thread

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Originally Posted by paulclaude View Post
When talking dyno figures, it's a bunch of mixed fruit. Even dyno's of the same type/manufacturer can read differently, so again it's hard to compare. That's why the delta between runs is really the only accurate measurement you can base things on.

We should be discussing how to improve/lift the curve, rather than comparison of the absolute number - would be far more constructive
This times a million
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357.7 whp 283.5 wtq

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Old Thu, Oct-12-2017, 09:24:18 PM   #1595
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Default Re: Official Dyno Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by paulclaude View Post
When talking dyno figures, it's a bunch of mixed fruit. Even dyno's of the same type/manufacturer can read differently, so again it's hard to compare. That's why the delta between runs is really the only accurate measurement you can base things on.

We should be discussing how to improve/lift the curve, rather than comparison of the absolute number - would be far more constructive
Quoted because this concept can't be repeated enough.
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Old Thu, Oct-12-2017, 10:09:46 PM   #1596
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Default Re: Official Dyno Thread

2003
Stage 2 gen3 AA SC (upgraded from 81 to 91 blower, not retuned)w/m kit and 70mm pulley

Recent MX:
fresh oil, air filter, coolant system, idlers and tensioner pulleys, belts.
Last valve adjustment and plug change was 15 months ago (~13000 miles)

Some reason Im only getting ~8.5PSI

Temp was 93, humidity was above 60%

75% smoothing
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Old Fri, Oct-13-2017, 08:15:32 AM   #1597
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Default Re: Official Dyno Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by paulclaude View Post
When talking dyno figures, it's a bunch of mixed fruit. Even dyno's of the same type/manufacturer can read differently, so again it's hard to compare. That's why the delta between runs is really the only accurate measurement you can base things on.

We should be discussing how to improve/lift the curve, rather than comparison of the absolute number - would be far more constructive
i dont disagree one bit, but the vast majority of people are looking at the final numbers in an absolute sense let alone area under the curve lol
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Old Fri, Oct-13-2017, 10:57:20 PM   #1598
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Default Re: Official Dyno Thread

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i dont disagree one bit, but the vast majority of people are looking at the final numbers in an absolute sense let alone area under the curve lol
In that case, the vast majority of people would be wrong.

Looking at absolute numbers just seems like a fools errand. That being said, it seems like most people DO fall under that category. Everyone seems focused on the "My car has XXXhp" game as if it is a dick measuring contest. To me, this just seems to allude to the fact that those same people don't really understand the purpose of a dyno and how it is actually used. People seem to think it's like a weight scale, regardless of who's scale you are on or the 'conditions' 200lbs is 200lbs, right!? The reality is, with this analogy, everyone's scale reads a pound differently. One scale says 200lbs, another says 250lbs, and another says 180lbs. What matters is the change (delta) between runs, while keeping conditions to be as exact as possible between runs, not the absolute numbers which are all but meaningless unless you are on a manufacturer's engine dyno (which is almost never the case).

Gaining 20 pounds is gaining 20 pounds, regardless if one scale reads 200 to 220, 180-200, or 250-280. The final number doesn't really matter given the variance between dynos and all the ways one can manipulate those numbers to read however high one likes. What matters is the change being consistent. There is almost nothing absolute about the 'absolute numbers' by themselves.
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Old Fri, Oct-13-2017, 11:58:09 PM   #1599
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Default Re: Official Dyno Thread

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Originally Posted by Dr M3an M3 View Post
In that case, the vast majority of people would be wrong.

Looking at absolute numbers just seems like a fools errand. That being said, it seems like most people DO fall under that category. Everyone seems focused on the "My car has XXXhp" game as if it is a dick measuring contest. To me, this just seems to allude to the fact that those same people don't really understand the purpose of a dyno and how it is actually used. People seem to think it's like a weight scale, regardless of who's scale you are on or the 'conditions' 200lbs is 200lbs, right!? The reality is, with this analogy, everyone's scale reads a pound differently. One scale says 200lbs, another says 250lbs, and another says 180lbs. What matters is the change (delta) between runs, while keeping conditions to be as exact as possible between runs, not the absolute numbers which are all but meaningless unless you are on a manufacturer's engine dyno (which is almost never the case).

Gaining 20 pounds is gaining 20 pounds, regardless if one scale reads 200 to 220, 180-200, or 250-280. The final number doesn't really matter given the variance between dynos and all the ways one can manipulate those numbers to read however high one likes. What matters is the change being consistent. There is almost nothing absolute about the 'absolute numbers' by themselves.
yeah thats why i point out things that may not be obvious to others with respect to different dynos and what is being presented and how this compares to other things. it is all relevant to a dyno thread.
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Old Sat, Oct-14-2017, 12:11:40 AM   #1600
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Default Re: Official Dyno Thread

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Originally Posted by digger View Post
yeah thats why i point out things that may not be obvious to others with respect to different dynos and what is being presented and how this compares to other things. it is all relevant to a dyno thread.
Absolutely.
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Active Group-Buys (PM if Interested): OE CSL Bootlids, CSL Bumper, OE CSL Wheels, Supersprint Headers/Exhaust MEGA thread, CSL Airbox, Brembo, Cams/Pistons...and more to come!
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Discussing Official Dyno Thread in the E46 M3 (2001-2006) Forum - Engine: S54 - Max Hp: 333 hp at 7,900 rpm / 262 lb/ft at 4,900 rpm
Total Produced: 45,000+ - Years Produced: 2001 to 2006. at BMW M3 Forum.com (E30 M3 | E36 M3 | E46 M3 | E92 M3 | F80/X)