BMW M3 Forum
BMW M3 Forum BMW M3 Gallery BMW M3 Reviews BMW M3 Social Groups BMW M3 Chat M3Forum Sponsors >>
Loading


Mobile M3forum
Go Back   BMW M3 Forum.com (E30 M3 | E36 M3 | E46 M3 | E92 M3 | F80/X) > BMW M3 Discussions > E46 M3 (2001-2006)
Tire Rack Buy Winter Tires Now!
Not a member? Register Now!
Register Gallery All Albums Garage Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Calendar FAQ

E46 M3 (2001-2006) Engine: S54 - Max Hp: 333 hp at 7,900 rpm / 262 lb/ft at 4,900 rpm
Total Produced: 45,000+ - Years Produced: 2001 to 2006.


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old Sat, Jan-13-2018, 06:22:11 PM   #151
TboneM3
YNWA
 
TboneM3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 7,094
In the garage:
Reputation: 0 TboneM3 is on a distinguished road
Location: Socal

United States




Default Re: CMP Auto Engineering subframe kit

Will there be a groupbuy for this newest product, the full 4 point (well, actually 6 pt) harness/brace?

The earlier groupbuy was for just the flat rear bar right?

Cheers
__________________
/// 2004 SilberGrau M3 Coupe 6MT slicktop manual seats no nav____________________JOURNAL



Evolve-R Alpha N Evolve CSL CF Airbox Eventuri Scoop Supersprint V1 stepped SS V1 S pipe + 200 cell HFC OE sect 2 SS Sport BMW Motorsport 4.10 Besian RE pullies/fan delete WPC rod bearings TMS Camber & Subf plates RE Trans Mounts AKG poly SUB/DIFF SDW RTAB ZHP knob + UUC DSSR GroundControl S/A (Koni/Eibach 440/550) + tall RSMs OE CSL trunk APEX 75mm Studs Sportline 8S 18"x8.5/9.5" MPSS 245/275 ss brake/clutch lines Pioneer DEH-80PRS Eclipse PA5422 CDT HD-6 + WS-100i CDT EX-530 8" Kicker

DD/Beater: 1999 Civic LX - Kenwood x998 PPI 1600.4 CDT HD-6 + HD-100 CDT EX-530 Clarion 10"
Jump to top TboneM3 is online now   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Register now and remove these ads
Old Sat, Jan-13-2018, 10:21:00 PM   #152
mrgizmo04
Registered User
 
mrgizmo04's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 1,681
In the garage:
Reputation: 0 mrgizmo04 is on a distinguished road
Location: Menlo Park

United States




Default Re: CMP Auto Engineering subframe kit

Might be interested in group buy option as well.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
__________________
'85 528e 164k miles (sold)
'05 M3 6MT coupe

All DIY: 330 ZHP steering rack, diffsonline 4.1 diff with rem polish, E60 short shifter lever, AKG black diff bushings/subframe bushings, Rogue rtab, WPC rod bearings, Beyer driveshaft, full SS (SS stepped V1, catted S1, resonated S2, SS sport), Sachs clutch/flywheel, rear main, VANOS bullet proofing with anti-rattle, valve adjustment, cooling refresh, Ohlins R&T/Swift 448f 672r/GC street tops and camber plates, AFD E85 Proflex kit.
Jump to top mrgizmo04 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old Sun, Jan-14-2018, 12:43:26 AM   #153
e46IX
Registered User
 
e46IX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Age: 26
Posts: 261
Reputation: 0 e46IX is on a distinguished road
Location: Toronto

Canada




Default Re: CMP Auto Engineering subframe kit

This new design looks fantastic. Been holding out for a complete solution like this, this looks like it fits the bill combines the best of the Vince + Mason solutions all-in-one.

Count me in if there's a group buy whenever this product is ready.
Jump to top e46IX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Sun, Jan-14-2018, 07:22:52 AM   #154
AussieE46M3
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 180
In the garage:
Reputation: 0 AussieE46M3 is on a distinguished road
Location: Gold Coast

Australia




Default Re: CMP Auto Engineering subframe kit

Quote:
Looking forward to this set please let us know how it goes
Thanks Cagan. I certainly will.

I'm just waiting on my laser cutter now. If I can get the parts in time, I'll have some install shots to share around the 29th. Otherwise I'll have to push it back further.

Quote:
Will there be a groupbuy for this newest product, the full 4 point (well, actually 6 pt) harness/brace?

The earlier groupbuy was for just the flat rear bar right?
Hi Tbone, You are correct. The Group buy was for just the topside beam kit as that is all I had on offer at the time.

Quote:
Might be interested in group buy option as well.
Quote:
This new design looks fantastic. Been holding out for a complete solution like this, this looks like it fits the bill combines the best of the Vince + Mason solutions all-in-one.

Count me in if there's a group buy whenever this product is ready.
Sure guys. If there's sufficient interest for a group buy I'd love the opportunity to offer that to the community. I've been getting interest over Facebook as well so I'm sure there's bound to be enough to achieve a very reasonable discount.

I'll let you know when things are at that stage where I can do that and I'll get it happening.

By that time I'll likely also have on offer aluminium subframe raising bushes of my own design that I could also include in the group buy for those interested in upgrading?
For those interested, my machinist recently arrived back from holiday and is machining the first prototype set this week. I plan to install them along with the additional chassis support during the 26th-29th long weekend.
Jump to top AussieE46M3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Sun, Jan-14-2018, 10:30:17 PM   #155
UFoh
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 43
Reputation: 0 UFoh is on a distinguished road
Location: jacksonville

United States




Default Re: CMP Auto Engineering subframe kit

Quote:
Originally Posted by AussieE46M3 View Post
If there's sufficient interest for a group buy I'd love the opportunity to offer that to the community.
Add me to the 'list' please
Jump to top UFoh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Mon, Jan-15-2018, 09:43:40 PM   #156
AussieE46M3
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 180
In the garage:
Reputation: 0 AussieE46M3 is on a distinguished road
Location: Gold Coast

Australia




Default Re: CMP Auto Engineering subframe kit

Morning guys,

I have some good news and some bad news.

Good news is I can finally provide the pricing for the front mount extensions. It's looking like I'll be able to provide them at $280 AUD (~$220 USD) + shipping. This is before the coming group buy discount.

The bad news is that my laser cutter has such a large back log from the Christmas break that I wont be receiving the first batch till Monday the 5th of Feb. I'm pushing to have it on Friday the 2nd so I can install it over that weekend however, that's only if I'm lucky.

So this has pushed my plans back about 2 weeks and the release of the product to about Monday the 19th. The brace will likely be available in March and I'll be starting the group buy during this time.

I apologise in advance if that lead time is an inconvenience to anyone.

EDIT: Forgot to mention, at this point in time I do not plan to supply extended fasteners for the front mount extension kit like I do in the rears. This is because the drive line forces are jacking into the chassis not pulling down meaning, the stress is transferred through the contact between the top of the front mount and the plate at the base of the tubes. The fastener tension and top nut clamping force are in the opposing direction to that which would resist the drive line forces.
Instead, the base of tube plate has been designed to tie into both the factory mig weld locations for a direct link and also include a centred hole in order to secure the tube/plate during the welding process. With the hole present, anyone with extended front fasteners can reuse them when looking to upgrade to this kit.

just wanted to mention it to avoid confusion in future.

Quote:
Add me to the 'list' please
Sure thing UFoh

Last edited by AussieE46M3; Tue, Jan-16-2018 at 04:04:43 AM.
Jump to top AussieE46M3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Wed, Jan-17-2018, 03:08:18 PM   #157
m3 hal
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 21,610
Reputation: 0 m3 hal will become famous soon enough

United States




Default Re: CMP Auto Engineering subframe kit

Quote:
Originally Posted by AussieE46M3 View Post
Regarding what you've said above M3 hal, I do not believe the bending moment in the vertical plate is of any significant concern. The tubes mating onto that plate would make any potential strains from the bending moment negigable. I've included a cross section shot below to show where they overlap.
I was looking at the horizontal plate that sits on top of the mount. I've attached a few sketches.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AussieE46M3 View Post
a shear bolt in that location does not contribute any rigidity to the brace mount and the best thing to do is add bending rigidity to the top face which I have done to a feasible extent.
That's simply not true. Force and moment transfer into and out of the shock bolt location is conveyed through the thin cross section of the flat plate. Welding or bolting the vertical plate to the shock tower results in increased rigidity because the joint rotation is not centered on the flat plate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AussieE46M3 View Post
The Mason brace appears to use thinner steel without any ribbing on the vertical face offering less rigidity at the mount than my own design.
The Mason has a more rigid joint at the shock tower mount because of the way the additional bolts in the vertical face of the shock tower increase the transfer of moment to the joint. It is by inspection more effective at transferring more moment at that joint than a slightly thicker flat plate.
Attached Images
File Type: png forces_azz4f4.png (89.4 KB, 43 views)
File Type: png revised_-_top_njptho.png (7.7 KB, 258 views)
Jump to top m3 hal is online now   Reply With Quote
Old Wed, Jan-17-2018, 10:20:34 PM   #158
AussieE46M3
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 180
In the garage:
Reputation: 0 AussieE46M3 is on a distinguished road
Location: Gold Coast

Australia




Default Re: CMP Auto Engineering subframe kit

Morning M3hal,

I don't quite follow your analysis.

Quote:
Force and moment transfer into and out of the shock bolt location is conveyed through the thin cross section of the flat plate.
I understand that the applied force from the dampener is in the vertical direction at the point the top mount of the dampener bolts on. That is the reason I had added the vertical ribs to increase its second moment of area up to the centre of pressure from the dampener. The induced moment acts between the centre of applied pressure and the resultant being the brace.

As I've said, the vertical plate is deemed so rigid that I have assumed there is negligible differential movement between it and the side of the shock tower. Thus there would be no shear forces for a horizontal bolt to support and the clamping force of the bolt would also apply a moment in the wrong direction. This essentially leave the top plate as a cantilever.

Quote:
The Mason has a more rigid joint at the shock tower mount because of the way the additional bolts in the vertical face of the shock tower increase the transfer of moment to the joint. It is by inspection more effective at transferring more moment at that joint than a slightly thicker flat plate.
I still do not see how the Mason brace has more rigidity at the top plate. I have never seen one in person however, based on the google images below the top plate they use is entirely flat, thinner, has not strengthening ribs and has several mm's between the vertical plate and the centre of pressure. The resulting bending strain in the cantilever top plate would be significantly greater than that of my own design?





This analysis is based on my own perspective. I appreciate you taking the time to detail your concerns. I am open to recommendations on how to improve the design however, in this case I am trying to avoid introducing new holes into the structure as that increases the potential for moisture and things to enter the boot cavity as well as the vertical face and side of shock tower would have to be perfectly mated to be effective and if not could stretch and deform the steel which would then have shear stresses applied potentially introducing an entirely new problem.

Going back to where you mentioned welding or bolting the vertical plate onto the structure, I did in fact design the vertical plates so that there would be a small gap between it and the spot welded overlap in the vertical face of the shock tower so that a weld bead at its base would seem weld the structure together however, The purpose of the brace was to be bolt in and not permanent so this was not recommended although, is an option for those who would like to do so. The same applied for anyone wanting to introduce a shear bolt. It will be possible to drill a hole on the rear most face of the plate however, not the front due to the lengths of tube that triangulate the front mounts.
Jump to top AussieE46M3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Thu, Jan-18-2018, 02:33:52 AM   #159
m3 hal
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 21,610
Reputation: 0 m3 hal will become famous soon enough

United States




Default Re: CMP Auto Engineering subframe kit

Quote:
Originally Posted by AussieE46M3 View Post
As I've said, the vertical plate is deemed so rigid that I have assumed there is negligible differential movement between it and the side of the shock tower. Thus there would be no shear forces for a horizontal bolt to support and the clamping force of the bolt would also apply a moment in the wrong direction. This essentially leave the top plate as a cantilever.
This wouldn't be a vertical shock loading, but loading from the brace (rear subframe mounts should be pushing up during accel, hard accel + huge bump to opposite shock, etc.) being re-distributed to the shock tower in question. The additional bolt would alter the center of rotation of the joint. You can see from the diagram in my earlier post that you get moment from joint eccentricity in addition to the moment from frame action.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AussieE46M3 View Post
I still do not see how the Mason brace has more rigidity at the top plate. I have never seen one in person however, based on the google images below the top plate they use is entirely flat, thinner, has not strengthening ribs and has several mm's between the vertical plate and the centre of pressure. The resulting bending strain in the cantilever top plate would be significantly greater than that of my own design?
I should have been more clear about the direction of loading. I think that might be where this is getting mixed up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AussieE46M3 View Post
I appreciate you taking the time to detail your concerns. I am open to recommendations on how to improve the design however, in this case I am trying to avoid introducing new holes into the structure as that increases the potential for moisture and things to enter the boot cavity as well as the vertical face and side of shock tower would have to be perfectly mated to be effective and if not could stretch and deform the steel which would then have shear stresses applied potentially introducing an entirely new problem.
Thanks, I appreciate you having the patience to deal with my nittery. I also want to clarify that the time spent discussing it doesn't mean I think it's a huge problem, and I didn't intend to point to it as a major shortcoming. It is a solid design overall.
Jump to top m3 hal is online now   Reply With Quote
Old Fri, Jan-19-2018, 06:14:56 AM   #160
folgrz
Stop lookin at me SWAN!
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 553
Reputation: 0 folgrz is on a distinguished road
Location: Long Island

United States




Default Re: CMP Auto Engineering subframe kit

I am more than likely all in once the 6 point race bar comes into play
__________________

E46 M3 Owners of the World <---- Join the FB group!!
Jump to top folgrz is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
e46, racp, subframe, subframe failure, subframe reinforcement

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT. The time now is 05:01:13 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
M3Forum.com and M3forum.net is in no way sponsored, endorsed or affiliated by or with BMW NA / BMW AG or any of it's subsidiaries or vendors.
BMW and M3 (E90 M3 | E92 M3 | E93 M3 | E46 M3 | E36 M3 | E30 M3) are registered trademarks of BMW AG.
M3Forum Terms of Service
Copyright 1999-2017 M3Forum.com
Discussing CMP Auto Engineering subframe kit in the E46 M3 (2001-2006) Forum - Engine: S54 - Max Hp: 333 hp at 7,900 rpm / 262 lb/ft at 4,900 rpm
Total Produced: 45,000+ - Years Produced: 2001 to 2006. at BMW M3 Forum.com (E30 M3 | E36 M3 | E46 M3 | E92 M3 | F80/X)