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E36 M3 (1992-1999) {Euro - S50 B32 321hp @ 7400 rpm} {U.S. - S52 B32 240 hp @ 6000 rpm}
Total Produced: 71,212 - Years Produced: 1992 to 1999


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Old Sun, Apr-19-2015, 01:14:15 PM   #1
BMWhat?
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Default Wisdom on suspension Nut and Bolt replacement?

What is the hive mind wisdom here on hardware (nuts and bolts) replacement for a suspension overhaul?

The Bentley is obviously peppered with "always use new self-locking hardware", other than (at least that I noticed) the steering arm to front strut bolts which state to use new hardware or Loctite 270. I've also seen other maintenance specs (non-BMW, non Bentley) that call for a certain running torque on reused self-locking fasteners for them to be considered acceptable.

Just want to get an idea of what people are doing and what they have had success or failure with. Are there areas that fall in the "definately replace regardless of condition" category and others that can be reused? Are you all using blue or red loctite for specific fasteners (in addition to the steering arm bolts mentioned above)?

I've got my suspension currently fully dissembled and about to place a large order from Tischer. If it was a track car or if the current hardware was damaged or worn (corrosion, rounded, free-spinning, bent, etc) I could see replacing everything, but I've got to think that much of my seemingly good condition hardware could be reused.

I have searched and read pages and pages of overhaul threads and have not found this discussed much. Seems like most people either replace everything or don't mention hardware at all.

Minutia I know. Thanks for humoring me.
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Old Sun, Apr-19-2015, 01:52:21 PM   #2
egebhardt
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Default Re: Wisdom on suspension Nut and Bolt replacement?

If you could be more specific, that would help.

This is a sample of my work and I'm not going to claim any exceptional wisdom here. Also, I've never had a car with any rust. Being in California, it is possible. I've never had any post-work failures either.

6 Front Strut Lower Bolts/Nuts - I've always re-used them. I did not add to the red loc-tite that was on there.
6 Upper strut mount 13mm nuts - I've always re-used them. I did not add loc-tite. This is an ovalized lock-nut.
2 Lower Rear shock mount bolts - I've always re-used them. I did not add loc-tite.
4 Upper rear shock mount nuts - I've always re-used them. I did not add loc-tite.
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Last edited by egebhardt; Sun, Apr-19-2015 at 01:57:12 PM.
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Old Sun, Apr-19-2015, 02:31:07 PM   #3
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Default Re: Wisdom on suspension Nut and Bolt replacement?

Replace the TTY strut bolts - 10.9 non-TTY bolts from the hardware store are fine. Consider adding some 1.2-2.0mm thick shims here if you want to increase front camber. Replace the nylon washers for the front-control arm balljoints, but a new control arm kit or new balljoints will have new nylon washers.

I use blue loctite on brake-related hardware. I don't use loctite on any other suspension hardware unless there's a good reason to.

I didn't stake the rear axle nuts, but I check them whenever I have the rear wheels off. They haven't budged in 3 years of driving.

It's definitely personal preference on replacing other nuts, bolts, and washers. Generally, I prefer cleaning/degreasing/painting hardware rather than replacement. A brass-bristle brush is pretty safe for scrubbing galvanized hardware, and a 12-24 hour soak in dilute simple green works wonders for cleaning greasy ones. The exception are nuts and bolts whose threaded portions are so rusty that chasing with a tap or did doesn't help.
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Old Mon, Apr-20-2015, 12:53:21 AM   #4
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Default Re: Wisdom on suspension Nut and Bolt replacement?

Quote:
Originally Posted by egebhardt View Post
If you could be more specific, that would help.
Interested in everything mentioned plus drive shaft hardware (guibo bolts, nuts on differential input, screws and keepers on output flanges to half-shafts), and front and rear subframe hardware.

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Originally Posted by Jrrrrrrr View Post
Replace the TTY strut bolts
Do you know what else is Torque-To-Yield if anything on the suspension, drive train, and subframes? Is there a listing somewhere or a rule-of-thumb based on torque spec and fastener size?
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Old Mon, Apr-20-2015, 01:50:17 AM   #5
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Default Re: Wisdom on suspension Nut and Bolt replacement?

I reuse most bolts, even the lower strut mount bolts. If my car was a track car, I would be more concerned.
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Old Mon, Apr-20-2015, 01:49:18 PM   #6
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Default Re: Wisdom on suspension Nut and Bolt replacement?

The lower strut mount bolts are not torque to yield. Clean them up, (bolt and hole), with a thread chaser and use blue Loctite. (74lb-ft is not near yield point.)

Same with the lower rear shock bolts. (54lb-ft)

The top strut nuts really don't do anything but keep the strut from falling out.

They say use new bolts, but that's because they come from the factory with thread locker on them.
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Old Mon, Apr-20-2015, 07:49:57 PM   #7
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Default Re: Wisdom on suspension Nut and Bolt replacement?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWhat? View Post
Interested in everything mentioned plus drive shaft hardware (guibo bolts, nuts on differential input, screws and keepers on output flanges to half-shafts), and front and rear subframe hardware.
I just purchased all these components, planning to work on them within the next couple of weeks, and I ended up buying all the related nuts and bolts. My reasoning is that, since usually they only add a couple of more bucks to the order...might as well have new hardware....plus I like the look of shiny new hardware , makes me feel like it's not a half assed job....OCD is a terrible thing!
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Old Wed, Apr-22-2015, 02:12:45 AM   #8
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Default Re: Wisdom on suspension Nut and Bolt replacement?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richardsperry View Post
The lower strut mount bolts are not torque to yield. Clean them up, (bolt and hole), with a thread chaser and use blue Loctite. (74lb-ft is not near yield point.)
You're right, I wasn't posting well at that time and I know full well what a TTY bolt is, and these are not one of them.
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Old Wed, Apr-22-2015, 03:30:38 AM   #9
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Default Re: Wisdom on suspension Nut and Bolt replacement?

Quote:
Originally Posted by falciott View Post
plus I like the look of shiny new hardware , makes me feel like it's not a half assed job....OCD is a terrible thing!
This is the impression I got from looking at other rebuild threads, but after reading the bentley over and over again I had this nagging feeling.

Thanks for the replies. I'm cleaning and reusing most of my hardware and replacing anything that looks questionable.
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Old Wed, Apr-22-2015, 04:02:37 PM   #10
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Default Re: Wisdom on suspension Nut and Bolt replacement?

Just get a grinding wheel machine and put a wire wheel on one side. Then you can clean up your old hardware.
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Discussing Wisdom on suspension Nut and Bolt replacement? in the E36 M3 (1992-1999) Forum - {Euro - S50 B32 321hp @ 7400 rpm} {U.S. - S52 B32 240 hp @ 6000 rpm}
Total Produced: 71,212 - Years Produced: 1992 to 1999 at BMW M3 Forum.com (E30 M3 | E36 M3 | E46 M3 | E92 M3 | F80/X)