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Old Mon, Jul-12-2010, 05:15:15 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by bosundave View Post
Interesting. But whats up with truth in advertising these days? Bimmer world states:"Sprung hub - By adding a sprung hub disc, chatter and noise gained by adding a lightweight flywheel is greatly reduced.' AND "Sprung-hub design prevents chatter, race proven performance and durability"

That's pretty far from the truth. But the price is great. AA is 3 freaking thousand dollars for the same thing!!! BTW, the website says this OK for SMG, but I am going to forgo the light weight flywheel for now.

http://www.activeautowerke.com/viewp...x?id=Product38

I like THIS from HPF. Good to 700HP and use only with stock flywheel. Low chatter:
http://www.horsepowerfreaks.com/part..._Stage_1/11210
less than 1K, now i like that! How many hours to change this out with no flywheel change? I can get a guy who has REAL reasonable rates to install this.
sprung hub does reduce noise/chatter.
the aa clutch kit is very expensive.
i am considering the rogue engineering f/i-specific one actually.

note that hpf does not recommend stage 1 clutch for smg cars. they recommend stage 2.

if you are gonna change clutch, you might as well put in a new oem flywheel. do not resurface current one, of course.
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Old Mon, Jul-12-2010, 06:41:58 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by shadowless View Post
sprung hub does reduce noise/chatter.
the aa clutch kit is very expensive.
i am considering the rogue engineering f/i-specific one actually.

note that hpf does not recommend stage 1 clutch for smg cars. they recommend stage 2.

if you are gonna change clutch, you might as well put in a new oem flywheel. do not resurface current one, of course.
Re read it. I thought the same. It is just worded funny to make you think that. But it clearly states that the application is for SMG. Besides here is a thread with several guys with SMG running the stage 1 Feramic with SMG and loving it!
Of course I would double confirm in writing with HPF about the stage 1. Dimes to dollars it is fine. It clearly states it as an application. The wording about the stage 2 is misleading the way it is worded. Take another close look. I thiught at first exactly what you did.
also read this!:
http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=544090


The RE kit is 2.6k and I could not find anything about it on the forums. Read the reports on the HPF clutch. in the link above. A LOT cheaper with out the smoke and mirrors.

Oh and "Might as well put in a new flywheel." you said. Answer: I dont think so. Not unless there is something drastically wrong with mine. They are freaking expensive. I only have 27k on the flywheel. that's nothing. They should last over 100K.
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Old Mon, Jul-12-2010, 07:11:28 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by bosundave View Post
By adding a sprung hub disc, chatter and noise gained by adding a lightweight flywheel is greatly reduced.' AND "Sprung-hub design prevents chatter, race proven performance and durability"
Ha.. well since I am in PR/marketing.. The term used is "greatly reduced", however the benchmark is not established. It doesn't say it isn't still noisy... just not as loud as some other brands.
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Old Mon, Jul-12-2010, 07:12:54 AM   #24
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Ha.. well since I am in PR/marketing.. The term used is "greatly reduced", however the benchmark is not established. It doesn't say it isn't still noisy... just not as loud as some other brands.
LOL.
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Old Mon, Jul-12-2010, 07:16:50 AM   #25
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I like THIS from HPF. Good to 700HP and use only with stock flywheel. Low chatter:
Just so you know, you should have no chatter when using a stock flywheel regardless of the clutch/disc.

What causes chatter is the crank moving at low velocity. Remember, your engine does not turn in a fluid motion. With every fire of the cylinder, the flywheel rotates. The heavier the flywheel, the more mass spinning which equals more inertia, so the surging effect is limited.

With a lightweight flywheel, each firing jars the flywheel. It is that jarring under low RPM that causes the springs, throwout bearing and transmission gears etc.. to "rattle".

Some people have found running a slightly heavier gear oil reduces chatter.
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Old Mon, Jul-12-2010, 07:24:26 AM   #26
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Re read it. I thought the same. It is just worded funny to make you think that. But it clearly states that the application is for SMG. Besides here is a thread with several guys with SMG running the stage 1 Feramic with SMG and loving it!
Of course I would double confirm in writing with HPF about the stage 1. Dimes to dollars it is fine. It clearly states it as an application. The wording about the stage 2 is misleading the way it is worded. Take another close look. I thiught at first exactly what you did.
also read this!:
http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=544090


The RE kit is 2.6k and I could not find anything about it on the forums. Read the reports on the HPF clutch. in the link above. A LOT cheaper with out the smoke and mirrors.

Oh and "Might as well put in a new flywheel." you said. Answer: I dont think so. Not unless there is something drastically wrong with mine. They are freaking expensive. I only have 27k on the flywheel. that's nothing. They should last over 100K.
there is no need to re-read it but i did per your post.

regardless of how you interpret it, it is clear that they intended to convey sprung hub reduces chatter and noise. how much exactly is up to debate all night and morning long. but a sprung hub does reduce noise/chatter.

i would confirm with hpf regarding what clutch to run. if i had to choose only their products, i would go with stage 2. but i am avoiding all of their products as much as i can.

the re kit is being run by a few folks, but yes, feedback is limited.

Quote:
Read the reports on the HPF clutch. in the link above. A LOT cheaper with out the smoke and mirrors.
lol @ "smoke and mirrors". look who all posted in that e46f thread. if you know the history of this forum, you know what i am referring to.

plus, every single person i know running hpf clutch in an smg car has issues with slow takeoff at stop/idle or from a slow roll. the issues are mainly stuttering/shuttering. to me, that is an important point. also, several folks report increase in noise.

furthermore, if you want to save some more money, you can just get the clutch from the manufacturer and not get it from hpf.

flywheel is pretty cheap compared to everything else you have done. you can visually inspect it and see if it is in good shape. it is up to you with regards to keeping the current one or going with a new one. btw, there is nothing that's gonna be drastically wrong with yours so that answers what you are gonna do. personally, i would just do it while you are in there but it is up to you. additionally, if you are/were doing a lot of diy's like some of us do and this was one of them, then i would say no need to since you are not gonna save on labor costs.
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Old Mon, Jul-12-2010, 07:53:27 AM   #27
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there is no need to re-read it but i did per your post.

regardless of how you interpret it, it is clear that they intended to convey sprung hub reduces chatter and noise. how much exactly is up to debate all night and morning long. but a sprung hub does reduce noise/chatter.

i would confirm with hpf regarding what clutch to run. if i had to choose only their products, i would go with stage 2. but i am avoiding all of their products as much as i can.

the re kit is being run by a few folks, but yes, feedback is limited.



lol @ "smoke and mirrors". look who all posted in that e46f thread. if you know the history of this forum, you know what i am referring to.

plus, every single person i know running hpf clutch in an smg car has issues with slow takeoff at stop/idle or from a slow roll. the issues are mainly stuttering/shuttering. to me, that is an important point. also, several folks report increase in noise.

furthermore, if you want to save some more money, you can just get the clutch from the manufacturer and not get it from hpf.

flywheel is pretty cheap compared to everything else you have done. you can visually inspect it and see if it is in good shape. it is up to you with regards to keeping the current one or going with a new one. btw, there is nothing that's gonna be drastically wrong with yours so that answers what you are gonna do. personally, i would just do it while you are in there but it is up to you. additionally, if you are/were doing a lot of diy's like some of us do and this was one of them, then i would say no need to since you are not gonna save on labor costs.
Well, I will keep an open mind then. Stage 2 might be better for the SMG with increased pressure. I should not have to make up my mind for a while yet. When are you going to install the RE? I would be real intersted in your results.
forgot. Do you have SMG?

No, I dont know too much about E46. I hardly EVER go there. I just got a Google hit. I have not heard that many good things about the kids that hang out there, so I suppose I should be careful with any "information" I glean from there.

But, yeah, I will take a real close look at all of the internals when the clutch is apart. I am a big on replacing things. I gutted some OK components in my subframe and put ALL new things back there.

But I want to really LOOK at the flywheel that has such low mileage instead of automatically replacing it. You never know, there may be an issue with it.

Keep it coming. I AM listening.

I found a post that a guy said that HPF DOES recommend the stage 2 for smg. I dont know why they dont remove the specs that say the stage 1 is suitible for the stage 1. Shadowless you are correct.
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Old Thu, Aug-26-2010, 07:57:32 PM   #28
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Just thought I'd throw in my 2 cents here. I have a 2004 M3 w/ ~57k miles running an AA Gen3 Stage 2 SC dyno'd @ 440rwhp. It’s still on the stock clutch. I've only owned the car for a week, but based on what I've experienced so far, everything still shifts smoothly with no problems – feels just like my previous NA e46 M3. I've done mostly highway driving up until this point, so I’m not too sure how things are holding up under WOT in lower gears – no problems shifting from 3rd to 4th at redline though. I’m still getting used to the car, so I’m still not really sure what to make of shifts when I’m flooring it at lower speeds… still white-knuckling the steering wheel with eyes on the road at this point, lol. I’ve been wondering how much life is left on the clutch… would be curious to hear what others have to say.
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Old Wed, Sep-01-2010, 04:18:08 AM   #29
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Just thought I'd throw in my 2 cents here. I have a 2004 M3 w/ ~57k miles running an AA Gen3 Stage 2 SC dyno'd @ 440rwhp. It’s still on the stock clutch. I've only owned the car for a week, but based on what I've experienced so far, everything still shifts smoothly with no problems – feels just like my previous NA e46 M3. I've done mostly highway driving up until this point, so I’m not too sure how things are holding up under WOT in lower gears – no problems shifting from 3rd to 4th at redline though. I’m still getting used to the car, so I’m still not really sure what to make of shifts when I’m flooring it at lower speeds… still white-knuckling the steering wheel with eyes on the road at this point, lol. I’ve been wondering how much life is left on the clutch… would be curious to hear what others have to say.
I am at about the same power and running my car and clutch pretty hard. So far so good. I am told that I will NOTICE a difference with the lock up of a performance clutch.

I only see some minor slipping every once in while.
I am driving it pretty hard in the thoughts that I plan on upgrading before i really stress it out with a 410 rear end. The new diff wouldnt make any friends with the old stock clutch is my guess.

But driven a little more carefully, the stock clutch could last AGES. Dont let anyone tell you that you HAVE to change it out. You dont. It's Life depends on SO many things, SMG or 6 speed, tire grip, temperature, driving habits, differential ratio, how many TOTAL miles are on it, etc.

One thing is FOR SURE. ALWAYS run your SMG in the MOST aggressive mode! In lesser lock up modes it is SUPPOSED to slip to make the shifts softer. That will wear the clutch faster in hard acceleration.
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Old Tue, Sep-07-2010, 06:34:58 AM   #30
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AA usually gives sound advice, but regardless of power output, no two cars are ever driven the same way.
With the power of stage 2, the added performance benefit of a light weight clutch and flywheel is “almost” too minor to detect by butt dyno, so the main reason to upgrade is to handle the power. For that purpose I’d say don’t change something when its working.
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