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E36 M3 (1992-1999) {Euro - S50 B32 321hp @ 7400 rpm} {U.S. - S52 B32 240 hp @ 6000 rpm}
Total Produced: 71,212 - Years Produced: 1992 to 1999


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Old Sun, Jul-19-2015, 05:10:34 PM   #61
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Default Re: thoughts on older M3 vs. newer f30

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Originally Posted by EricSMG View Post

The result? The slowest, most under-steery gen is the funnest and most magical to drive. Funny how that works
yup, im just waiting for some popular car journalist to get his hands on all the m3 models side by side, an think the e36 is the most fun.
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Old Sun, Jul-19-2015, 05:22:44 PM   #62
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Default Re: thoughts on older M3 vs. newer f30

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Originally Posted by nebatuga View Post
So I've had this 95 M3 coupe 5mt for over a year now. I'm thinking about selling it, and my current daily driver, and consolidating into a single car. Thinking about a f30 328i or 335i with M-sport and 6mt. I want something as fun to drive as the M3, but with warranty and modern bells and whistles. We only have two garage stalls and the M3 gives us a 3rd car.

What I love about the M3 is steering/cornering road feel. It's not super fast, but plenty fast enough. It's the most engaging, connected to the road car I've ever driven. Sounds and looks awesome. I've only driven one 328i msport (2015) on a lame test drive, and I couldn't get a feel for it. I know the auto review world hounds the f30 for lack of steering precision/feel. I know it's a subjective question, but do you all think the f30 m-sport (don't want to spend the big dollars on a new M3... I don't need a "super car") would feel disappointing compared to e36 M3s? Just curious about the thoughts of those who know these cars so well.
Missed this thread.


I have a 2015 335Msport and an e36 M3/4/5. The f30 is my DD and an auto. I love the f30 but it's so completely different in every respect. It's not a good canyon carver, it weighs a ton, it's huge, numb driver feel. On the plus side it's freakin' fast, very comfortable as a daily -even in sport mode, and it has every bell and whistle an old guy can hope for.

Apples to oranges between these two.

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Old Sun, Jul-19-2015, 05:31:38 PM   #63
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Default Re: thoughts on older M3 vs. newer f30

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Originally Posted by EricSMG View Post
Ha, sounds like the C5Z..... Scary fast, very intimating, demands respect.

It's interesting how each gen of M3 gets more front grip. Te 36 has by far the least. 46 got more. 92 got a lot more. And the M4 has tons.

Each gen also got a lot more power. So less under steer combined with more power.

The result? The slowest, most under-steery gen is the funnest and most magical to drive. Funny how that works
I think on top of what you are saying, they've all gotten heavier (F80 reverses that trend just a bit), bigger and more powerful. There's something very refreshing about getting into my E36. Sure the interior sucks, but it's the right size, and the power is just enough for you not to die or go to jail. In the back of my head, I know it's got "enough" power to be fun, but not too much that I always have to think about how much throttle I'm giving it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by scoobiedoo2029 View Post
yup, im just waiting for some popular car journalist to get his hands on all the m3 models side by side, an think the e36 is the most fun.
Don't know if you've seen this or not, but I think it's great. For what it's worth, in another video, he says he probably likes the E46 out of all of them (if you consider the price vs performance as well).
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Originally Posted by propchef View Post
Missed this thread.


I have a 2015 335Msport and an e36 M3/4/5. The f30 is my DD and an auto. I love the f30 but it's so completely different in every respect. It's not a good canyon carver, it weighs a ton, it's huge, numb driver feel. On the plus side it's freakin' fast, very comfortable as a daily -even in sport mode, and it has every bell and whistle an old guy can hope for.

Apples to oranges between these two.

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Agreed. Very very different cars.
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Old Sun, Jul-19-2015, 08:05:28 PM   #64
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Default Re: thoughts on older M3 vs. newer f30

doesn't seem like the facelift helped.

Pistonheads:
Quote:
My heart sank. Already, I was dubious. But as the road became twistier, it became clear. BMW has ruined the surprisingly fine electric power steering of the F30 3 Series. So I did a most un-BMW-like thing and ignored it.
Ö
But for the horrible steering. It's sticky straight ahead, snatchy in response, seems to magnetically 'freeze' in corners and lacks any of the finesse I recall from the first-gen F30 3 Series. Praise be then - it's the optional Variable Sport Steering, and should be avoided at all costs. No wonder it's only £290, because it's awful.

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And, whisper this, they may very well also miss the engaging cornering balance, deft body control and uncorrupted steering of the better versions of the outgoing F30. Itís much too early to start the obituary on this carís peerless dynamic qualifications, but theyíd certainly gone missing in the case of our 340i. The car rode quietly and comfortably, but it lacked the good initial damping and lateral grip levels to take to testing roads with any distinguishing alacrity. The car still handles relatively well Ė but itís far from outstanding.

BMWís Variable Sport Steering remains the 3 Seriesí biggest dynamic bugbear - itís to be avoided on the order form at any cost. It works adequately well at high motorway speeds, and always makes the 340i feel directionally stable. The latter may well be exactly what itís for, given Germany's liking for destricted autobahns and tightening slip roads.

But its prices for doing that are the sacrifice of any natural contact patch feedback, a clumsy return to the dead-ahead as you wind off lock and the never-ending guessing game youíre obliged to play when turning into any given corne, without really knowing how much steering angle youíll need or how much effort itíll take to apply it. At times, the steering becomes so heavy off-centre that you'd swear the power steering had given up altogether.
Ugh. I can't stand modern BMW's. I've gone from wanting every single car they made in 2002 to wanting not a single car they make now (though I still want everything they made in 2002 ). Worse yet, nobody is what BMW used to be.

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Old Sun, Jul-19-2015, 09:48:40 PM   #65
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Default Re: thoughts on older M3 vs. newer f30

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Having thought what you think now a couple of years ago, I no longer think they've lost it. The F80 M3 and upcoming M2 are actually indications that they have not lost it. You can accuse turbo engines of a lot of things, but the N55/B48/S55 are anything but boring.
That's not necessarily what I think. I was just echoing the statements of many other people I know. While I do think it has happened to some degree, in some select aspects, it wouldn't stop me from purchasing a newer BMW. I admitted it to myself the minute I cold started an N55 powered 135i and heard the amazing exhaust note.
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Old Sun, Jul-19-2015, 10:02:18 PM   #66
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Default Re: thoughts on older M3 vs. newer f30

I've pretty well settled on my next car being a non wide body e46 m3 sedan. 245 or 235's square on 17s. No sunroof, non fold through seats (which puts it just shy of e9x chassis rigidity. Some custom valved bilsteins with shortened bump stops. M3 drivetrain/brakes/suspension outside of shocks. Subframe foam and beisan, meaning no significant failure points. SSV2 stepped headers, euro M3 section 1, stock section 2, and a muffler SS says they'll make me with e46 non M mounting points and M3 pipe diameters... meaning I keep the full size spare. Maybe a 332mm bbk, maybe not. And then DD the crap out of it, keeping the powerful/light/modded e46 M3 coupe for special occasions and tracking.

The M5 puts to sleep with it's torque, isolation, and "easy" speed, and the e9Xm and F3X are worse. The F8X will be unownable out of warranty, the steering feel is shit, and I hate the power delivery (both the torque, the lag, and the falling on its face after 6000rpm). And the F8Xm is far better than anything else they've made for years and years.

I have yet to experience any EPS car I feel comfortable pushing to the limit. Without the steering conveying when you're running out of grip, is much harder to live at the edge of grip.
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Last edited by Obioban; Sun, Jul-19-2015 at 10:07:48 PM.
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Old Sun, Jul-19-2015, 10:53:04 PM   #67
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Default Re: thoughts on older M3 vs. newer f30

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Autocar:

Ugh. I can't stand modern BMW's. I've gone from wanting every single car they made in 2002 to wanting not a single car they make now (though I still want everything they made in 2002 ). Worse yet, nobody is what BMW used to be.

This sums up my love for BMW. The E31, E36 M3, E34 & E39 M5, and E38 740i are all perfect. I think the E30 M3 is neat, but it really doesn't do anything for me. The E46 M3 is a little too flamboyant for my taste, though I do want that power-plant, and the E90 to all future M3/M4 are just too big. The F80 M3 is a great M5. The F10 M5 is a powerhouse, but far too fat for my skinny ass, and the M235i isn't what I want in a modern BMW, though it's close and a blast to drive, I'm holding my breath the M2 will be the first new BMW I've wanted in over a decade.

When I grew up, BMW were RWD sedans with surprising power and understated looks. They certainly weren't the twin turbo, flappy paddle, "look-at-me I'm angry" lux-o-barges they've become.
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Discussing thoughts on older M3 vs. newer f30 in the E36 M3 (1992-1999) Forum - {Euro - S50 B32 321hp @ 7400 rpm} {U.S. - S52 B32 240 hp @ 6000 rpm}
Total Produced: 71,212 - Years Produced: 1992 to 1999 at BMW M3 Forum.com (E30 M3 | E36 M3 | E46 M3 | E92 M3 | F80/X)