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E46 M3 (2001-2006) Engine: S54 - Max Hp: 333 hp at 7,900 rpm / 262 lb/ft at 4,900 rpm
Total Produced: 45,000+ - Years Produced: 2001 to 2006.


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Old Fri, Jan-29-2016, 03:15:05 PM   #41
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Default Re: CSL/Euro Headers vs. Supersprint V2

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Originally Posted by M3_mann View Post
Is the main difference associated with exhaust flow efficiency? If they're all pipes angled in same direction with equal amount of cells blocking flow, what makes ss more superior over Euro or welded cats?

I have a set of Euro headers laying around and I'm contemplating on rather or not I should just install them.

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There's two separate things going on here.

The SS headers flow better than the OE euro headers (and the SSV1s flow better than the SSV2s, but you can't use V1s with standard section 1s). So, taking the cats out of the equation, they make more power.

The OE section 1 cats are pretty good. You can used them with the SSv2s or OE euros. SS makes a section 1 with HJS race cats (which are super high quality, but $$), but the stock cats are good enough that you're only looking at a 1-2 hp difference.

Welding aftermarket cats into section 1, at the stock cell count, will like result in less power than the OE euro catted section 1 (or SS catted section 1), and have issues shortly. Most aftermarket cats are pretty shitty.

The cats/section 1 are separate and unrelated from the headers-- trying to combine them needlessly adds confusion.
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Old Fri, Jan-29-2016, 03:43:40 PM   #42
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Default Re: CSL/Euro Headers vs. Supersprint V2

And at the end of the day, I want to ditch my V2's for V1's lol
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Old Fri, Jan-29-2016, 06:29:36 PM   #43
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Default Re: CSL/Euro Headers vs. Supersprint V2

What if I can find some newer cats off a newer Camaro, mustang or any non-bmw factory cats with ~2.36" diameter? How would that compare to factory euro cats? That takes care of the aftermarket cat's reliability and longevity issue. I think SS cats are out of the question at their msrp.
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Old Fri, Jan-29-2016, 11:32:46 PM   #44
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Default Re: CSL/Euro Headers vs. Supersprint V2

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Originally Posted by M3_mann View Post
What if I can find some newer cats off a newer Camaro, mustang or any non-bmw factory cats with ~2.36" diameter? How would that compare to factory euro cats? That takes care of the aftermarket cat's reliability and longevity issue. I think SS cats are out of the question at their msrp.
Considering emissions requirements have gotten exponentially more stringent I have a feel you'd have a bad day if you did that..
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Old Sat, Jan-30-2016, 12:12:06 AM   #45
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Default Re: CSL/Euro Headers vs. Supersprint V2

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Considering emissions requirements have gotten exponentially more stringent I have a feel you'd have a bad day if you did that..
Is that right? Would they not be 200 or 400 cell honey comb anyways? I don't think it'll affect flow vs older unit. Aftermarket cat seems to have not changed.

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Old Sat, Jan-30-2016, 01:49:06 AM   #46
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Default Re: CSL/Euro Headers vs. Supersprint V2

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Is that right? Would they not be 200 or 400 cell honey comb anyways? I don't think it'll affect flow vs older unit. Aftermarket cat seems to have not changed.

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As far as I'm aware (someone feel free to correct me) the number/size/cell count of cats is not regulated. What is regulated is the emissions target that come out of the car. What if the cat is 400 cell still but twice as long to meet the required targets?? I suppose if you bought a car with a really environmentally friendly engine before the emissions systems come into play you'd probably get the least restrictive converter but considering all the manufacturers racing to have the most powerful design I assume there aren't many SULEV vehicles out there anymore.
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Old Sat, Jan-30-2016, 02:59:22 AM   #47
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Default Re: CSL/Euro Headers vs. Supersprint V2

Ok gotcha. Ive been reading some stuff about the difference between catless and stock exhausts on a 2011-2014 mustangs, and how much power they gain. They say catless generate about 15 HP. So im guessing that is about how much restriction the cats are producing. Brief searching tells me that our m3s make about 15-20 HP after going catless, but double checking will probably be good. So technically the difference in restriction between the 2 cars made 10 yrs apart is pretty similar.
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Last edited by M3_mann; Sat, Jan-30-2016 at 03:05:06 AM.
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Old Sat, Jan-30-2016, 11:42:16 AM   #48
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Default Re: CSL/Euro Headers vs. Supersprint V2

Stock Euro cats sap ~3 hp on our car.
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Old Sat, Jan-30-2016, 03:33:01 PM   #49
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Default Re: CSL/Euro Headers vs. Supersprint V2

I can't find the thread, but I thought someone on here showed a back-to-back dyno of US vs Euro Section 1 and the dynos were identical.
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Old Sat, Jan-30-2016, 03:46:16 PM   #50
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Default Re: CSL/Euro Headers vs. Supersprint V2

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Originally Posted by Kalahari View Post
I can't find the thread, but I thought someone on here showed a back-to-back dyno of US vs Euro Section 1 and the dynos were identical.
You may be referring to my dyno graph.

Here are two runs comparing the following setup:

SS V2 Non Stepped Headers . OE Euro Cats . SS XPipe . OE Section 3
SS V2 Non Stepped Headers . OE US Section 1 . SS XPipe . SS Section 3



Notice the hit ignition are near identical also, so ECU wasn't playing any funky games.



I truly believe the OE Euro Cats flow very well for car with otherwise typical bolt-ons. I think it begins to hinder power once you start getting in big cams, big TBs, and big Airboxes.
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Discussing CSL/Euro Headers vs. Supersprint V2 in the E46 M3 (2001-2006) Forum - Engine: S54 - Max Hp: 333 hp at 7,900 rpm / 262 lb/ft at 4,900 rpm
Total Produced: 45,000+ - Years Produced: 2001 to 2006. at BMW M3 Forum.com (E30 M3 | E36 M3 | E46 M3 | E92 M3 | F80/X)