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E90 M3 (Sedan) | E92 M3 (Coupe) | E93 M3 (Convertible) (2008-2013) {Engine: S65 - Max Hp: 414 hp (420 hp Euro) at 8,300 rpm / 295 lb/ft at 3,900 rpm}


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Old Mon, Dec-17-2018, 06:58:32 PM   #21
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Default Re: E46 M3 to E92 ZCP

I've always been a fan of the E46 M3, but the E92 M3 won out and I have not looked back since. I've never gotten in my car and thought it was too slow or gutless. I've got 3 M's and the E92 would be the last to go.

I will throw something else out there. When I was looking to add a car with an S54, I considered the E46 (for the 3rd time) and ended up getting a Z4M Roadster. If you can live with 2 seats or are looking for a weekend car, this thing hits the spot. A clean one is very reasonably priced considering the price of E46's have sky rocketed
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Old Tue, Dec-18-2018, 09:46:38 PM   #22
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Default Re: E46 M3 to E92 ZCP

Quote:
Originally Posted by tdott View Post
I own both.

The E9x is a better overall package, faster in every way but does feel bigger with a bit of heft. That is what also makes it feel more refined while being more capable at the same time. It’s great package and you can’t beat that V8 sound.

Now the e46 has some strengths also, it’s got a few hundreds lbs less going for it, which makes it feel a bit more “raw” but also less refined. Not a huge fan of the e46 interior which doesn’t seem to age well when not taken care of.


Saying the V8 is gutless and has no tq is silly and probably isn’t being driven how it’s meant to. The S65 has more tq over the entire rev range than an s54, so if the s65 is gutless then the s54 must feel like a 4cy Honda.
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Originally Posted by m13s View Post
Couldn't agree more. My viewpoint is from a track perspective only, while I like the e46 and won a shit ton of races with it, it is a 20+ year old platform and it was time to move into something more modern. The E90 is heavier but turns in quicker and rotates better and has much less under steer that the E46. Add the fact that I don't have to ring out the S54 chasing mustangs and vettes (Touring 1 class, SCCA) the S65 is a joy to drive. The power is so linear and predictable and the sound is intoxicating. I was very hesitant to move to the platform until I drove it on the track and after the first session I new it was the right choice.

Now some of the E46 fanboys may disagree, if so post your findings. Again this is from a racing perspective, not street. That I can't comment on the street manners because I could care less about them or the interior for that matter.

FYI on track the S65 in the 5500-8500 RPM range is a must drive. Low end torque who cares. I'm not down there anyway except when pulling out of the pits. Oh and the 445 diff is on the way, tell me that that is not going to be full BEAST mode.

Not dumping on the E46 at all, great platform and had fun with it. Time to move on to something better.


What these guys said.

I had an E46M for years and put 100k miles on it. Did the RB DIY for it. Tracked it in summer, drove it in winter.

Got an E92 ZCP while I owned the E46. The E92 weighs 100lb more, weighed back to back. It is way more powerful, has a V8 note to die for, much much (muuuuuuuch) better on track performance.

Eventually sold the E46M and got an E90 to keep it company.


The E46 did feel more raw, but also unnecessarily so. The suspension was at the same time crashy but then the car didn't handle that well.

When people tell me the E9X 'lacks torque' vs the E46 I just wonder what they're on. I've tracked both cars back to back with the same tires on the same track, multiple track days. There is such a massive difference in performance it is not even funny.

Obviously E46s can be fast, hell E36s can be fast as well, but if you're comparing two similarly modded cars the difference is quite large.




And to people who say 911: please sell your Ms and go buy your piece of shit Porsches. Go to Rennlist and leave us M owners in piece. It's pathetic to see how many people are desperately saving up their banana peels to one day buy a 'real car'.
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Old Fri, Mar-08-2019, 02:27:45 AM   #23
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Default Re: E46 M3 to E92 ZCP

I want a 911 Turbo, probably a 991.1 or .2. First time I have read they are a piece of shit.
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Old Sat, Mar-09-2019, 06:48:15 PM   #24
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Default Re: E46 M3 to E92 ZCP

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Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow View Post
What these guys said.
When people tell me the E9X 'lacks torque' vs the E46 I just wonder what they're on. I've tracked both cars back to back with the same tires on the same track, multiple track days. There is such a massive difference in performance it is not even funny.

They're on the..."I've never driven an E9X M3 so I'm talking out of my ass pill." The E9X M3 is superior to the E46 M3 in terms of performance, reliability and doesn't have that "interior falls apart after 50k miles" quality. No E46 M3 has ever passed me that hasn't had a roll cage, aero and weighed less than 3000 lbs. My E9X has a Dinan Stage 2 suspension and a Stoptech BBK.

I will say the E46 M3 has a more initimiate interior, everything is a little closer to the driver, the cup holders are better, tires are cheaper, and the gas mileage is better.

Other than that, an E9X M3 beats the pants off an E46 M3. An E9X M3 is far easier to control at and beyond its limits. My E9X feels as precise as my E46 with TC Kline coilovers.
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Old Sun, Mar-10-2019, 12:35:04 AM   #25
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Default Re: E46 M3 to E92 ZCP

I went from the E46 to E9X and haven't really looked back. How ever i might add, IMO the E46 make you feel more of a driver and one with the road(If that makes sense). You initiate the response of the car, steering, clutch engagement.

Mean while the E9X seems a bit more refined and assisted. But overall both great cars.
It's a shame because the "M" division of BMW are veering away from the Car and Road interaction experience. Personally they lost me with the F8X "M", Generic exhaust sound effects.

I can't see myself graduating to F8X or even the G8X even when they do become affordable .

Last edited by ICE68; Sun, Mar-10-2019 at 08:13:00 PM.
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Old Wed, Mar-13-2019, 06:58:27 PM   #26
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Default Re: E46 M3 to E92 ZCP

If you NEED tech and like the look, the LCI E90 is hard to beat. It's a great all around car for a DD with DCT I'd add. The ZF 6 speed in the E9X M3's make the E46 M3's Getrag look like a V160 from a Supra it's that bad.

If you don't mind older cars, I kept my M3 and added an E39 M5. 4 doors and torque but refined. 2 doors and no torque weedwacker. Got my Honda weedwacker and John Deere tractor haha.
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Old Thu, Mar-14-2019, 07:17:34 PM   #27
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Default Re: E46 M3 to E92 ZCP

Quote:
Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow View Post
Got an E92 ZCP while I owned the E46. The E92 weighs 100lb more, weighed back to back.
I've been weighing a bunch of cars on my scales. There's a fair bit of variety from one to the next. But, a max light spec e90 (6mt, no sunroof, no iDrive, 18s) was 248-303 lbs that two very stock e46 M3s I had on the scales (one was heavily optioned, the other lightly optioned). Which, not coincidentally IMO, is exactly in keeping with what BMW said the weight difference was between the two generations.
(BMW curb weight for e90M: 3750
BMW curb weight for e46M: 3440
3750-3440 = 310
Light weight spec e90M on my scales - light weight spec e46M on my scales = 303 lbs)

All cars adjusted to a half tank of gas to make them comparable.

From: http://www.m3forum.net/m3forum/showthread.php?t=602929

Quote:
Originally Posted by Obioban View Post
I got some corner balancing scales recently (which I haven't done yet, because I haven't leveled my scales yet-- but the front/rear balance and total weight are still accurate). Lots of people stopping by want to weight their cars, and it's kind of interesting, so I thought I'd make a thread compiling all the weights.

First post will list all the cars, in order from lightest to heaviest. As new cars get added I'll make a post with the new cars weight, and update the OP.

Weights are adjusted to reflect what the weight would be with a half full gas tank and no driver, for more meaningful comparison.

Many of the cars aren't stock.

Sporty streetable cars (AC/back seat retained if it came with it/door cards and headliner installed/street legal):
BrandChassisModelBody StyleWeight (lbs)OwnerNotes
PorscheG Series 3.2911Coupe2550StigRecaro Speed S seats, AC delete except lines/drier, RS door cards, radio delete, airbag delete, 915 gearbox
HondaAP1S2000vert2776Mike RT4Ohlins DFV, Recaro PPs, square 8½" wheels, AD08Rs, J's Racing strut brace
BMWe46M3coupe3085ObiobanFull interior and stock weight muffler, but too many changes to list here.
Porsche996.1GT3Coupe3099Mike RT4's friendStock with clubsport package
BMWe46M3 CSLcoupe3133Mike RT4AP Brakes, full SS exhaust
BMWe36M3sedan3192pawa_k2001stock with the spare tire removed
BMWe46M3coupe3211jickel180Recaros, S2R sunroof delete, Kirk roll bar, Supersprint Race sec. 3, Mini Cooper battery, slightly over half tank
BMWe46M3coupe3217pawa_k2001misc (see post 42)
Porsche997.1GT3coupe3233Ginsu Timnone
BMWe36M3sedan3240pawa_k2001stock
NissanR32GTRsedan3295Brianfull GTR conversion R32 Skyline sedan, rear wheel steering system removed
BMWe46M3coupe3335Stigpretty stock, “lightly” optioned (including slicktop), CSL airbox and lighter wheels
BMWe46M3coupe3339pawa_k2001's brothermisc (see post 43)
BMWe46M3coupe3390JohnSMG/sunroof. 18" BBS RG-Rs and CSL intake. Identical mods to Stig, so good comparison of light stock vs heavy stock
BMWe87M2coupe3447jetbillDCT, exec package
BMWe90M3sedan3638HofmeisterKinkyLightest option spec-- slicktop, 6mt, no iDrive, 18s
BMWe39528iWagon3769Stigjunk in the trunk
BMWe39M5sedan3890ObiobanMostly stock other than BBS RG-Rs

Appliance cars
BrandChassisModelBody StyleWeight (lbs)OwnerNotes
Mazdaunknown6sedan3304Roccostock
HondaRE4CRVcrossover3544Chrisawd, no sunroof, 2x kids seats

Track/Race cars
BrandChassisModelBody StyleWeight (lbs)OwnerNotes
BMWe36M3coupe2423Obioban/Surge709S50B32 swapped
BMWe36328icoupe2600Ginsu Timnone
... I really need to get my M3 wagon and 530i on there.
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Last edited by Obioban; Thu, Mar-14-2019 at 07:22:15 PM.
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Old Fri, Apr-05-2019, 06:20:25 PM   #28
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Default Re: E46 M3 to E92 ZCP

Quote:
Originally Posted by ColinGreene View Post
I think about it a lot. That said i just bought a 911 so I think about it a lot less....
Mostly because cant afford it.
I test drove one, Its heavy feeling due to no more significant torque where i drive the car. and I knew that I would hate the fuel mileage. Some people might call me out for that but its a real factor for me.
2 things that bothered you:
Less low-RPM torque
Bad gas mileage

Good answer. We want all viewpoints.
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Discussing E46 M3 to E92 ZCP in the E90 M3 (Sedan) | E92 M3 (Coupe) | E93 M3 (Convertible) (2008-2013) Forum - {Engine: S65 - Max Hp: 414 hp (420 hp Euro) at 8,300 rpm / 295 lb/ft at 3,900 rpm} at BMW M3 Forum.com (E30 M3 | E36 M3 | E46 M3 | E92 M3 | F80/X)