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M3 Track: Racing and DE Best mod for speed is learning to get the most out of what you currently have. Tracks and DE's is the place to start!


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Old Wed, Feb-03-2010, 05:50:42 AM   #21
ShakeNbake
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The three configurations I've tried

1) OEM non ZHP + Street tires (TWS 2:15s), faded out the brakes 5th DE session, nearly crashed after braking from 130 to 70 on second lap.

2) OEM + Euro Rotors + Cobalt Spec VR+ SS Lines + Brass Bushings + SRF + Hoosiers (TWS 1:55/6s), no issues with fading, but pads only lasted 2 days, wore at strange angles, and required that I rotate in between (happens if you trailbrake a lot). Stopping response and pedal feel varied greatly from corner to corner and lap to lap. Lost a lot of accuracy near end of session - but the stopper power was fine and no fade. I am pretty sure the issue was the temp of the caliper reducing its stiffness and causing it to deform under heavy load. Some amount of knock back in there too throwing things off. Well maintained setup, so this was not binding or a rebuild issue. Stock weight car with track wheels and minus rear seat.

3) Brembo 355F/Caliper upgrade rear + DTC70 + SRF + GSP SMG Pedal + Hoosiers (TWS 1:55/6s), no fading, pads lasted 4-5 days (still required rotating), same stopping power as 2), waaaaaaay more accurate, the pedal felt exactly the same lap after lap. The increase in accuracy really let me squeeze every last drop of sloppiness out of my cadence. Impact on laps times was minimal, but overall more satisfying. Like a good set of speakers. Same dB as the ones out of the white van, but you experience more.

Not relevant..4) E90 OEM + DTC70 + SRF + NT01s
Back to OEM accuracy, but no shortage of stopping power, feels like more power than the E46, but probably a function of the lighter wallet.

I'd recommend you stick with 2) + ducting until you can fade them or you're running close to mid pack HP club racing lap times in a stock weight car.
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Old Wed, Feb-03-2010, 05:52:10 AM   #22
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for what it's worth, i've tracked on oem pads/rotors/lines and aftermarket fluid and i noticed the fading at the end of the days. it was my first time on the track.

after that i upgraded to the stoptech rotors, ds2500 pads for the front and axxis ultimates in the rear, ss lines, and aftermarket fluid and noticed a HUGE impact. i could brake later, harder, and experience very little fade compared to a nearly oem setup. i've gotten lazy and i keep the ds2500's on the front while on the street and i noticed there is a severe lack of cold bite on those pads.

this season i'm looking to keep using the ds2500's as my street/track setup since i'm only an occasional hpde enthusiast. i can't justify the cost of bbk and i feel i'm not up to the level to justify the cost of the pfc01/06 pads.

just my two cents, since it seems you're battling the same situation.
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Old Wed, Feb-03-2010, 05:05:30 PM   #23
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Default ZCP for Beginners? .............NAaaaaaaH

I have been good with the ZCP set up and Hawk HT-10 front / Cool Carbon Rear. I ALWAYS flush the caliper and lines with ATE type 200 BEFORE the event. I normally run Bridgestone RE-11 or Mich Pilot sport Cups.

I swap out the track pads at home in the comfort of garage, drive to track and then back home on track pads. BE SURE you bed the pads BEFORE you get on the track (ask me how I know). The track pads help "clean" the surface of your rotors on your way home! No vibrations.

This is a great setup and has suited me well for over 5yrs of hard driving at about 5 events per year. I'm a CCA instructor so I push the car, very competative lap times. Brakes are not the limiting factor, nut behind the wheel is. If you track twice a month or go onto competative time trials, get a BBK and call it good. Its your but that your hauling into the corner at Tripple digit speeds, make sure you have the right equipment.

Hot Date...............Hot Lap

Last edited by Gary O; Wed, Feb-03-2010 at 05:09:32 PM.
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Old Wed, Feb-03-2010, 05:50:48 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tonester View Post
Whats your budget?

The ultimate track "bang for your buck" setup below:
Fluid
Stoptech slotted rotors
SS lines
Race pads
Solid caliper guides
Titanium backing plates

The solid caliper bushings helps stop the caliper from twisting causing uneven pad wear it also reduces the brake squeal so you don't sound like a train coming to a stop.

Titanium backing plates helps by reducing the amount of heat that is transfered from the pad to the piston which causes your brakes to fade and brake fluid to boil.

PM me if you would like more info.

Great advice, Get some good rotors or even stock will do, Pair them up with PFC 06's.
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Old Wed, Feb-03-2010, 08:50:45 PM   #25
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Default Brake upgrade

This will give you good results and like others have noted get some street pads to swap in. The solid caliper pin's only down side is that they have to be greased before each track event and maybe more often if you log a lot of street miles as the grease only lasts so long. If the pins are not greased they can overheat and expand and the caliper will not fully release.

I have the below setup (except I have the ZCP brakes) and the car stops all day long like you would not believe. My track sessions are about 30 min. too.

OE size slotted rotors (StopTech or UUC)
PFC06 pads or my preference Cobalt Friction XR2 front & rear
s.s. brake lines
Motul brake fluid
solid caliper pins
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Old Thu, Feb-04-2010, 05:38:05 AM   #26
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how often to plan on tracking eventually? i've gotten to the point where i just gave up and went bbk (gets here on saturday), but zcp rotors, motul fluid, ss lines, and good pads can last u a while.

stock pads are not ok even for your first time imo, sc trojan definitely was cooking his on his first day and i was cooking ds2500s on my second time out (with ss lines, fluid, zcp rotors)
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Old Thu, Feb-04-2010, 07:09:37 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by kaiv View Post
Since most of the braking is done by the front brakes, could I get away with running street pads in the rear at all time and swapping just the front pads for track days?



Do you swap pads on both front and rear axles?


Thanks everyone for your much appreciated input

I know there are guys doing the race front street rear thing, but from what I understand, the problem you can run into is twofold
a: it will shift brake bias further front
b: because you are doing more braking up front, the front will heat up significantly more than the rear, which could be problemmatic

I'm swapping pads on both front and rear, but I have access to a lift, so it's easy. Jacking the car up takes me almost as long as swapping the pads.
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Old Thu, Feb-04-2010, 04:37:30 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snort06coupe View Post
I know there are guys doing the race front street rear thing, but from what I understand, the problem you can run into is twofold
a: it will shift brake bias further front
b: because you are doing more braking up front, the front will heat up significantly more than the rear, which could be problemmatic

I'm swapping pads on both front and rear, but I have access to a lift, so it's easy. Jacking the car up takes me almost as long as swapping the pads.
Under heavy braking the rear of the car will become very loose because the brake bias is way off. Using Cobalt Friction pads as an example I began with the XR3 all around and was a good set up. I then tried the XR2 front pads but the rear of car started to become loose under hard braking. I was able to compensate some of this rear lift with increasing the rear shock rebound. After talking with Cobalt I am now using the XR2 all around and can go deeper into the brake zones where I can catch up to some of the higher HP cars.
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Old Thu, Feb-04-2010, 05:06:30 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by M3Legacy View Post
Under heavy braking the rear of the car will become very loose because the brake bias is way off. Using Cobalt Friction pads as an example I began with the XR3 all around and was a good set up. I then tried the XR2 front pads but the rear of car started to become loose under hard braking. I was able to compensate some of this rear lift with increasing the rear shock rebound. After talking with Cobalt I am now using the XR2 all around and can go deeper into the brake zones where I can catch up to some of the higher HP cars.
QFT, completely agree, but if ur a noob, it might be ok as u may not be braking that hard
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Old Thu, Feb-04-2010, 05:24:38 PM   #30
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When i ran stock pads, the rear of my car felt really loose. I switched to brembos all around w/ pfc06 in the front and pfc01 in the rear. With the slightly stronger rears, I've really liked the effect. The rear end feels really planted under heavy braking now.
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Discussing Track friendly brake upgrade that doesn't break the bank? in the M3 Track: Racing and DE Forum - Best mod for speed is learning to get the most out of what you currently have. Tracks and DE's is the place to start! at BMW M3 Forum.com (E30 M3 | E36 M3 | E46 M3 | E92 M3 | F80/X)