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E30 M3 (1986-1991) {Euro 86-892.3L: 200hp @ 6750} {1990 2.3L Evo2/Cecotto/Ravaglia: 220/215/215hp @ 6750}
{1991 2.5L Sport Evo: 238 @ 7000} {US -- 88-91 2.3L: 196hp @ 6750, 170tq @ 4750}
Total produced: 5,280 US, ~13,300 Europe/world


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Old Thu, Dec-22-2011, 03:17:46 PM   #11
M3n00b
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Default Re: $6k paint job gone wrong !!!!

Let this be a lesson...this is what happens to you when you're a pushover: People take advantage of you. Imagine that!
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Old Thu, Dec-22-2011, 03:46:55 PM   #12
Vlad-M3
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Default Re: $6k paint job gone wrong !!!!

hey guys, my shop is the one that painted the car.

Few things I would like to point out before every one jumps on the band wagon.

1) http://mybuildgarage.com/author/carreraboy/

these are just some of the projects that we did recently, most of those cars if they were not customers cars were sold on ebay and I have 100% positive feedback on ebay

2) after the above mentioned car was painted it was brought to Sigfest2011, e30 m3 biggest gathering in US. The reason I mention that is because if I was not confident about the paint job on this car I would never show it to the group of people who are die hard e30 m3 enthusiasts

3) the owner arranged and shipped the car back and it was delayed in shipping by the shipping company because their truck broke somewhere. When the car arrived the owner immediately noticed the damaged that was not specified on the original bill of landing inspection sheet when the car was loaded on to the truck at my shop.

4) I offered the owner to bring the car to take care of the issues he was mentioning but asked him to refrain posting anything about it until we resolve the situation and I get the chance to look at the car with my own eyes. The owner agrees but then goes and creates threads about it that turn into hate threads and get locked-up

5) the owner brings the car to another e30 m3 show where the car is seen by the same people who saw the car at the first show after the paint job, these people notice that the paint on the rear trunk, bumper, rear spoiler doesn't match the rest of the car now, they hint that the car was possibly damaged in shipping and the rear section was repainted. I still offer the owner to bring the car back for me to take care of the problems.
The owner gets mad and now starts to demand half of his money back without letting me see pics, the car itself or letting me fix the problems.

6) 7 month after the paint job was completed the owner finally posts the pics (for the first time) and the forums go crazy. Some of the forums restore the order, delete all the hate comments and continue on, some forums lockup the threads, 1 forum ban me etc...

Your religion doesn't allow you you to go to court but it allows you to go undocumented with no proof, made up lies and start this kind of BS?

If the owner had the problem he should've made an effort to rectify the situation directly with me (which was offered to him on multiple occasions) or hire the lawyer and proceed in the court of law. Not come on the forums multiple times with this crying game.

I am open to hear any feedback or to answer any questions.
Please don't turn this into the hate thread
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Old Thu, Dec-22-2011, 03:53:24 PM   #13
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Default Re: $6k paint job gone wrong !!!!

I believe Vlad. This should go to People's Court.
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Old Thu, Dec-22-2011, 04:41:52 PM   #14
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Default Re: $6k paint job gone wrong !!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vlad-M3 View Post
hey guys, my shop is the one that painted the car.

Few things I would like to point out before every one jumps on the band wagon.

1) http://mybuildgarage.com/author/carreraboy/

these are just some of the projects that we did recently, most of those cars if they were not customers cars were sold on ebay and I have 100% positive feedback on ebay

2) after the above mentioned car was painted it was brought to Sigfest2011, e30 m3 biggest gathering in US. The reason I mention that is because if I was not confident about the paint job on this car I would never show it to the group of people who are die hard e30 m3 enthusiasts

3) the owner arranged and shipped the car back and it was delayed in shipping by the shipping company because their truck broke somewhere. When the car arrived the owner immediately noticed the damaged that was not specified on the original bill of landing inspection sheet when the car was loaded on to the truck at my shop.

4) I offered the owner to bring the car to take care of the issues he was mentioning but asked him to refrain posting anything about it until we resolve the situation and I get the chance to look at the car with my own eyes. The owner agrees but then goes and creates threads about it that turn into hate threads and get locked-up

5) the owner brings the car to another e30 m3 show where the car is seen by the same people who saw the car at the first show after the paint job, these people notice that the paint on the rear trunk, bumper, rear spoiler doesn't match the rest of the car now, they hint that the car was possibly damaged in shipping and the rear section was repainted. I still offer the owner to bring the car back for me to take care of the problems.
The owner gets mad and now starts to demand half of his money back without letting me see pics, the car itself or letting me fix the problems.

6) 7 month after the paint job was completed the owner finally posts the pics (for the first time) and the forums go crazy. Some of the forums restore the order, delete all the hate comments and continue on, some forums lockup the threads, 1 forum ban me etc...

Your religion doesn't allow you you to go to court but it allows you to go undocumented with no proof, made up lies and start this kind of BS?

If the owner had the problem he should've made an effort to rectify the situation directly with me (which was offered to him on multiple occasions) or hire the lawyer and proceed in the court of law. Not come on the forums multiple times with this crying game.

I am open to hear any feedback or to answer any questions.
Please don't turn this into the hate thread
Hi Vlad, since you're so open to feedback and discussion. I have some.

I have been following the whole ordeal without picking any sides, here are some friendly observations.

First, you're a business man and I suspect you value your business, if this is true then some of your comments on forums (S14,r3v) toward your clientele is simply unacceptable, i understand you're angry, but you control your own actions, you click submit reply on every one of your posts, it would help you and your business to treat your customers with respect, they are after all paying your bills. The general population only knows you from how you present yourself in the public domain, you post pictures of your amazing cars and people think you're the E30 legend, you curse out your unsatisfied customers and most people will think twice before ever doing business with you. I'm sure you understand this as you are a grown mature person, but you certainly don't exercise any form of restraint. In instances where a customer isn't happy with you, its better to offer them some sort of kind explanation, receipt or whatever else they require from you. This isn't a 3rd world country, if your customer no longer wants to do business with you, you can't hold that against them and tell them to bring the car back so you can take care of it, you should understand that the customers trust in you and your shop has long been gone.

You say you took the car to SIGFest, im not really sure why you mention it as you certainly implicate yourself in theft, since the owner never allowed you to drive the car. Maybe i am wrong here legally, but certainly not morally.

I am not really sure why you never took pictures of the finished car and sent them over to the client who was overseas at the time. I would certainly love constant progress updates on my beloved E30M3. I understand that this maybe a little bit more of an overhead, but this is what differentiates a high-end shop from regular shops and if you're going to charge high-end prices you better act professionally. If you go to a 5 star resort you don't expect shotty service, do you? I'm sure you don't. Secondly the progress pictures would allow you to counteract the evidence that any client has. So far we've seen pictures of the terrible paint job, but you say the car was damaged during shipment, well do you have pictures of said car prior to shipment? Otherwise your case falls through.

You asked the client to bring the car back, under what circumstance do you think it is correct to tell him to not post anything on the forums? I am sorry, but this is public domain and you should expect this sort of outburst and you won't be able to control peoples behaviors, the world does not revolve around you. People are free to complain the way they see fit, it is not crying as you call it, just venting and you should accept that.

Bottom line is this, you or your shop may have the best paint jobs in the world and I am not denying that and this may have been a mistake. Perhaps you let someone inexperienced do the job and then just shipped the car or perhaps the job was perfect and was damaged.

It doesn't really matter, it's never about what happened, it's always about how you handle yourself after the fact. Things happen in life and mistakes occur and you can't change them or avoid them, but you can manage how you handle them.

You did not handle this gracefully, like an adult and a prominent business owner.

and that is why you are wrong.

-shake
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Old Thu, Dec-22-2011, 05:04:30 PM   #15
Vlad-M3
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Default Re: $6k paint job gone wrong !!!!

this just shows you why I get upset - because I just mentioned some of the stuff above but it gets skipped, people make assumption and then post based on what they selectively read, I will reply once again and try to clear it up


Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterShake View Post

You say you took the car to SIGFest, im not really sure why you mention it as you certainly implicate yourself in theft, since the owner never allowed you to drive the car. Maybe i am wrong here legally, but certainly not morally.

Sigfest is the biggest e30 m3 gathering in US and you know it. To debut the car at sigfest means a lot, in addition knowing that people were anxious to see this car finished and completed since many were following the restoration thread. If I did not feel confident about the car 100% I would never bring it in front of the eyes of true e30 m3 enthusiasts.

The owner never specified anything about NOT driving the car. I contacted the owner on multiple occasions well before taking the car to sigfest and informed him of my intentions. I drove the car to sigfest with my dealer plates to insure full coverage. When the car is at my facility, we are fully responsible for the car no matter what happens to it inside, outside, during the test drive etc.. Lastly, to have your car debuted at the sigfest among other e30 m3s and enthusiast would make me happy even if I was not there.
So please stop bringing this argument because it has no validity at all and was only brought up when these threads started to pop up.

For some conspicuous reason the owner does not mention anywhere free 1 month storage inside the shop after the car was completed ($75 per day fee)



Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterShake View Post
I am not really sure why you never took pictures of the finished car and sent them over to the client who was overseas at the time. I would certainly love constant progress updates on my beloved E30M3. I understand that this maybe a little bit more of an overhead, but this is what differentiates a high-end shop from regular shops and if you're going to charge high-end prices you better act professionally.


again, you failed to read that I constantly updated the owner with the progress pics and the finished car. We don't do it for our regular customers because it would be just 2 much but I treated the owner as a friend and fellow m3 enthusiast. I even took videos and emailed them to the owner.
The pics of the restoration thread are in the link I posted above



Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterShake View Post
You asked the client to bring the car back, under what circumstance do you think it is correct to tell him to not post anything on the forums? I am sorry, but this is public domain and you should expect this sort of outburst and you won't be able to control peoples behaviors, the world does not revolve around you. People are free to complain the way they see fit, it is not crying as you call it, just venting and you should accept that.
you contradict yourself now saying that because you mentioned that some of my replies on s14 were not acceptable yet you are saying that his is public domain and you should expect this sort of outburst

Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterShake View Post
Bottom line is this, you or your shop may have the best paint jobs in the world and I am not denying that and this may have been a mistake. Perhaps you let someone inexperienced do the job and then just shipped the car or perhaps the job was perfect and was damaged.
false, this was no mistake and I stand behind my work and I tried to resolved this on multiple occasions offering the owner the resolution.
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Old Thu, Dec-22-2011, 05:20:37 PM   #16
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Default Re: $6k paint job gone wrong !!!!

Vlad, I don't want to get into an argument with you, so we'll drop some things that I certainly don't have enough information on. Let's drop SIGFest argument entirely, I don't want to get into the politics of whether you should have driven your customers car or not.

I don't think I contradict myself at all, yes this is a public domain, and yes you can shout and curse and belittle your customers all day long if you see fit, but that doesn't mean you *should*. There is a big difference there and it wouldn't hurt to give that some thought next time you want to curse out an unsatisfied customer.

As far as pictures, many people on S14 have pointed out flaws in the restoration thread alone. I am not an expert so I can't comment on the pictures myself.

You claim there was no mistake, what you fail to realize is that you were paid for a service that guaranteed a certain quality of product and you failed to deliver this standard. Whether mistake or not, you never seemed like you cared for the customers car, more than the reputation of your work. You can make mistakes, admit mistakes and still stand behind your work. These are not mutually exclusive.

If you admitted a mistake that was not even yours, offered your apologies and offered your services (without pushing them down the customers throat)..gracefully agreed to reconcile differences and cooperated with the customers constant attempt at communication (text messages, voice mails, forums), you would have came out of this a better individual, a better business owner, and a better person.

I think you are more concerned about proving your case on every forum you get a chance at posting, instead i sincerely believe you should take some valuable lessons out of this ordeal, it's time to put down the guard and accept reality.

-shake
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Old Thu, Dec-22-2011, 05:36:10 PM   #17
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Default Re: $6k paint job gone wrong !!!!

always two sides of this story. he shouldnt of writen the check (4000$) for the rest of job until really looking at it and accepting. hopefully it gets worked out
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Old Thu, Dec-22-2011, 06:12:29 PM   #18
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Default Re: $6k paint job gone wrong !!!!

That paint job speaks volumes about who to believe in this story. Nice try saving face Vlad, but your rep is already fooked
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Old Thu, Dec-22-2011, 06:12:43 PM   #19
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Default Re: $6k paint job gone wrong !!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterShake View Post
You claim there was no mistake, what you fail to realize is that you were paid for a service that guaranteed a certain quality of product and you failed to deliver this standard. Whether mistake or not, you never seemed like you cared for the customers car, more than the reputation of your work. You can make mistakes, admit mistakes and still stand behind your work. These are not mutually exclusive.
Absolutely, we stand behind our quality and guarantee the quality that's why I offered the customer to take care of the situation without any evidence or documentation of such mistake. Have you seen this car personally ? What are your opinions about the quality of the job are based on, pics that were posted 7 month after the paint job?

Lastly, you know me personally, have been to my shop and know how to reach me, however, you chose to express your opinion publicly on the forum behind my back




Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterShake View Post
I think you are more concerned about proving your case on every forum you get a chance at posting, instead i sincerely believe you should take some valuable lessons out of this ordeal, it's time to put down the guard and accept reality.

-shake
I don't want my name being used as a scape goat in this or the other situation.

If I have an issue I resolve the issue, I don't go on the forums and cry a crying game.
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Old Thu, Dec-22-2011, 06:50:43 PM   #20
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Default Re: $6k paint job gone wrong !!!!

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Originally Posted by Vlad-M3 View Post
Lastly, you know me personally, have been to my shop and know how to reach me, however, you chose to express your opinion publicly on the forum behind my back

Quite frankly I am not sure how you've come up with this conclusion.

I have not posted on any other forums about this issue. I posted here and I posted directly to you, beginning with "Hi Vlad" and "Vlad". I am not exactly sure how this is behind your back? Should I have called you and asked you for your permission to post my opinion? I am confused. Also I have not directly smeared your work, I have simply pointed out your conduct on the matter.

Your tone is accusatory, you publicly asked for feedback and questions. I publicly responded directly to you. Now you are implying that I should have contacted you? What reason do I have to contact you? I am just a bystander, like most of the people here.

-shake
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Discussing $6k paint job gone wrong in the E30 M3 (1986-1991) Forum - {Euro 86-892.3L: 200hp @ 6750} {1990 2.3L Evo2/Cecotto/Ravaglia: 220/215/215hp @ 6750}
{1991 2.5L Sport Evo: 238 @ 7000} {US -- 88-91 2.3L: 196hp @ 6750, 170tq @ 4750}
Total produced: 5,280 US, ~13,300 Europe/world at BMW M3 Forum.com (E30 M3 | E36 M3 | E46 M3 | E92 M3 | F80/X)