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E46 M3 (2001-2006) Engine: S54 - Max Hp: 333 hp at 7,900 rpm / 262 lb/ft at 4,900 rpm
Total Produced: 45,000+ - Years Produced: 2001 to 2006.


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Old Tue, Jul-09-2019, 06:24:29 AM   #11
Lingsweiler
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Default Re: American racing headers replicas

Quote:
Originally Posted by e46IX View Post
I don't have any direct experience with this company but over on the E9x M3 side this same company made a direct copy of ARH's headers for the S65 and they seem pretty good. Dyno shows to have better gains than the traditional x-pipe/test pipe route.

I'd take a chance on them for the price. ARH selling headers for 3k was always absurd especially for questionable results.
So far this is what I found...

https://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1508615

Most likely will have fitment issues.
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Old Tue, Jul-09-2019, 12:55:20 PM   #12
Obioban
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Default Re: American racing headers replicas

On the plus side, the price point of these should get more (any?) cars on independent dynos :P

... but not on my cars
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Old Tue, Jul-09-2019, 02:16:21 PM   #13
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Default Re: American racing headers replicas

oh my, cant wait for someone to try these out
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Old Tue, Jul-09-2019, 08:16:48 PM   #14
Dr M3an M3
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Default Re: American racing headers replicas

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Originally Posted by STAATS View Post
Where did we end up landing as a community on the ARH 6-1 style headers? I lost track of the post originally but I thought it got to the point where the numbers couldn't be backed up and the SSV1's where still shown to be better based on real dyno results?

Not trying to start an argument and I could be wrong. Just trying to remember where we got with that original discussion before we start one on if ARH 6-1 knock-offs are worth while haha
Conclusions made about ARH from many discussions and from the data points I've seen:
1. Gains claimed by ARH were unsubstantiated and unrepeatable.
2. Are the headers costly? Yes -- But if they worked, then an argument could be made for their price point.
3. Are they well made in terms of construction and fitment? Yes, they are. I don't think anyone had fitment issues or issues with manufacturing quality.
4. ARH claimed the catted version came with Gesi cats, but that was determined to be false, unless up-charged and requested over the phone (there is no option to upgrade the cats online and no mention of two options being available). The cat discussion was a classic bait-and-switch. Take this however you like.
5. Performance, after speaking with Paul-Claude about independently dyno tuning a few cars with these headers, he came to the conclusion that these performed similar to Euro headers but with possibly a slightly lower (or near equal) top-end and with a gutted bottom end. He suspects there is a scavenging issue right after the 6-1 merge due to the contradictory (is that the right word I'm looking for?) fuel requirements these seem to demand. (Typically more breathing means more fueling with tuning, but in the case of the ARH it was opposite. On the low end flat spot and at the top end, they wanted exactly the opposite of more fueling -- so possibly worse flowing than even Euro.
6. They have not shown to perform better than a multi-step header system like the Supersprint Stepped V1s. Without naming names, I *think* (or so it was mentioned in passing conversation) that one of the outspoken ARH header owners/supporters on this forum is actually swapping to another multi-stepped header brand (which I found to be interesting/telling).

As for these knock-offs:
Totally assumptions I am making -- But I'd expect all the "negative" aspects that you'd get with the genuine ARH headers, but likely worse manufacturing quality, cheaper materials, cheaper cats, and likely fitment issues. China copiers struggle with getting two-piece header flanges to line up properly....My guess is that they will struggle even more with this 1-6 flange design, which would create even more fitment headaches if these don't line up perfectly on their own.

I'm not even an ARH supporter, but I will admit that it's a little disappointing to see these clearly being knocked off from them. I guess that is just the "standard" these days. I would personally stay away from the ARH design, but if that's what you want, I'd recommend supporting the people that brought the design to market if you can afford to vs giving profits to someone stealing their work. Then again, the same argument could be made about aftermarket CSL parts being copied/stollen from BMW.

For $788.48, I'd buy stock OE euro headers and enjoy the same top end, a better bottom end, and none of the tuning/fueling issues that the ARH design seemed to come with. You should have no problem finding euro headers for $600ish...Saving you $188 dollars over these knock-offs.

I'd love to see either Paul-Claude or Hassan chime into this thread -- Both have experience with these headers and tuning for them and I've had lengthy discussions with both of them on their tuning requirements, possible short comings in design, and their potential with regards to performance.

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Last edited by Dr M3an M3; Tue, Jul-09-2019 at 11:25:57 PM.
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Old Tue, Jul-09-2019, 09:13:54 PM   #15
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Default Re: American racing headers replicas

Hard to draw conclusions based off of a couple data points... but from a thread a couple months back on a dyno jet:

Okay, so let me get this straight, with the Super Sprint V1 setup on a similarly equipped car, 326 WHP and 252 torques.

SSV1 (non catted) - 326 WHP and 252 torques
AHR (catted) - 314 WHP and 240 torques


Heck, I made 323 whp on a dyno in dyno-jet mode (i know its not exactly a 'Dyno-jet' dyno) at 7200 rpm with just the ARH, and the catted option. I hope to have the car re-tuned at Kassel next year. This has been a stupid crazy year for me. I've maybe driven the car 400 miles all year and i just installed the Streamline CSL airbox a couple months back
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Old Tue, Jul-09-2019, 10:47:15 PM   #16
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Default Re: American racing headers replicas

“Dynojet mode” is meaningless.
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Old Tue, Jul-09-2019, 11:20:39 PM   #17
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Default Re: American racing headers replicas

Maybe it’s ignorance on my end, but I didn’t see the appeal of ARH given the reliable track record of stepped SS.
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Old Wed, Jul-10-2019, 03:28:50 AM   #18
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Default Re: American racing headers replicas

I still donít think I ever saw head-to-head dyno comparisons of ss headers and arh headers. By that I mean same dyno, mods, etc. So if anyone has spare headers of each Iíll volunteer as tribute
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Old Wed, Jul-10-2019, 04:31:05 AM   #19
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Default Re: American racing headers replicas

When creating headers,one needs to calculate the correct primary length in order to have the negative pressure pulse back in time for the next exhaust valve opening event to promote scavenging and cylinder filling, which is why headers make power. One would also need to determine primary width. The pipe width also determines the flow=>power.
Ssv1 optimized both primary lengths and widths (by creating the stepped design). Arh has a single step primary design of unknown(to me) length. I'm not sure if they calculated what length it needs to be, but the primary width was 1.75. Which is an 'in between' size compared to the SSV1s 1.65 - 1.83 primary widths(before and after step).
Tuning the ARH requires less fuel on the low end. In lay terms, less fuel =>less bang => less power output in the lower rpms. The top end seems to be good with these headers however.
With very little data, and a few outright fbo cars using it, u can't say much but they for sure lose low end.
I know 1 data point from stash1's car, his results posted on the forum, his car made the same (within 1hp) power output with arh and ssv1, but lost some low end with arh, but not a lot.
Being that they have a similar price point to ssv1 I'd chose ssv1,or buy euro headers and be done, as I know
of high hp na cars that still uses euro headers
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http://www.m3forum.net/m3forum/showp...4&postcount=10

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Old Thu, Jul-11-2019, 03:51:36 AM   #20
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Default Re: American racing headers replicas

For 2000-2500 you could get a nice custom set designed and fabricated rather than SSVx that way you could optimise the system for the engine start with SS slighty massage pipe sizes and lengths. Some of the SSV stuff now looks mig welded screw paying 2k+for mig welded stuff that looks ugly
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Discussing American racing headers replicas in the E46 M3 (2001-2006) Forum - Engine: S54 - Max Hp: 333 hp at 7,900 rpm / 262 lb/ft at 4,900 rpm
Total Produced: 45,000+ - Years Produced: 2001 to 2006. at BMW M3 Forum.com (E30 M3 | E36 M3 | E46 M3 | E92 M3 | F80/X)