BMW M3 Forum
BMW M3 Forum BMW M3 Gallery BMW M3 Reviews BMW M3 Social Groups BMW M3 Chat M3Forum Sponsors >>
Loading


Mobile M3forum
Go Back   BMW M3 Forum.com (E30 M3 | E36 M3 | E46 M3 | E92 M3 | F80/X) > BMW M3 Discussions > E46 M3 (2001-2006)
Tire Rack Buy Winter Tires Now!
Not a member? Register Now!
Register Gallery All Albums Garage Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Calendar FAQ

E46 M3 (2001-2006) Engine: S54 - Max Hp: 333 hp at 7,900 rpm / 262 lb/ft at 4,900 rpm
Total Produced: 45,000+ - Years Produced: 2001 to 2006.


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old Mon, Jan-11-2010, 01:00:59 AM   #11
trange1
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 158
Reputation: 0 trange1 is on a distinguished road

United States




Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by NVS PWR View Post
Extended life oil changes are not good for any motor especially a high strung one- it is a marketing edge to make maintainance costs look lower all manufactures are doing it- their goal is to have you buy a new car when you finish your last payment and you warranty is up because the forever fluids did not hold up. so its either spend 4k on repairs on 4k on a down payment most people opt for the down payment new ride deaaler wins.

Why skimp on one of the cheapest engine insurance plans a $70 oil and filter change.

I have two E46 M3's that I change the oil every three thousand miles

one car has 86000 and the other one 92000
driven hard every day
NO VANOS FAILURE OR OTHER PROBLEMS

THE LOW MILEAGE CARS with VANOS problems is due to the fact that the wonderful 15k mile CASTROL oil is breaking down and clogging the screens

I USE LIQUI MOLY 10W-60 RACETECH OIL and one quart of SYNTHETIC LUCAS OIL ADDITIVE every three thousand miles

lAST Time the valve covers were off one car needed one valve shim- the time before neither car needed any-(no castrol in these cars)

The point is more oil changes equals less worry.

I change my trans,and diff fluids every 15k, in addition I change my fuel filter every 15k also.( I still get 17-19 mpg local and 25-28 mpg on the highway) with supporting mods

Nothing is made to last forever- and the more you maintain it the longer it will last.


Just my

some will appreciate it and some will have their own opinion.
What an enlightening and informative post. I have a couple of questions: How long have you been using Liqui Moly?
Did you notice any wear on your cam lobes?

I have been using only TWS and while complying with my valve adj. schedule I noticed wear on the aft cam lobes. I am definitely switching oil this next oil change however I feel that it is probably more important to change oil frequently than the brand of oil used.

My carfax shows that the previous owner followed the BMW oil change schedule and I feel that is why my valvetrain suffered, not because of TWS.
Having said that though if TWS is the only oil BMW recommends it should be able to withstand BMW's maintenance schedule, looking at my engine it can't!

I am still trying to gather all the info I can find as I am still deciding to go with Liqui Moly or Redline, but I am definitely trying something other than TWS and increased oil changes in hopes that the wear on my cams doesn't become catastrophic.
Jump to top trange1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Register now and remove these ads
Old Mon, Jan-11-2010, 01:56:42 AM   #12
NVS PWR
Final Touch Motorsports
 
NVS PWR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 408
Reputation: 0 NVS PWR is on a distinguished road
Location: Long Island

United States




Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by trange1 View Post
What an enlightening and informative post. I have a couple of questions: How long have you been using Liqui Moly?
Did you notice any wear on your cam lobes?

I have been using only TWS and while complying with my valve adj. schedule I noticed wear on the aft cam lobes. I am definitely switching oil this next oil change however I feel that it is probably more important to change oil frequently than the brand of oil used.

My carfax shows that the previous owner followed the BMW oil change schedule and I feel that is why my valvetrain suffered, not because of TWS.
Having said that though if TWS is the only oil BMW recommends it should be able to withstand BMW's maintenance schedule, looking at my engine it can't!

I am still trying to gather all the info I can find as I am still deciding to go with Liqui Moly or Redline, but I am definitely trying something other than TWS and increased oil changes in hopes that the wear on my cams doesn't become catastrophic.

I have been using LIQUI MOLY for 18 months- prior to that I was running mobil one 15-50

I am not saying castrol is bad- what i am saying is that no oil should be run for 15000 miles.

The M was built with pride to be driven with pride why would one not want to maintain it with pride.

Redline is a real good oil also, but again I would still change it at three thousand, 4000 the most and thats for any oil I use.
__________________

UUC,BORLA,ROGUE BLUE RTABS-RSM & OIL HOUSING,H&R,BIMMERWORLD,BOSCH,ECIS,VMR,RPM,
NGK,NX,MSD,DEI,EVOSPORT,SHRICK,SHARK,K&N,
TOPSPEED,STEWARTWARNER,LUBROMOLY,LUCAS,
MAHLE,REDLINE,TOYO T1,MICKEY THOMSON DR'S,PAGIDBLUE, VELOCITY MOTORING,SNOW PERFORMANCE WATER METHANOL INJECTION,S&W,POWDER COAT,CUSTOM NX INSTALL BY FINAL TOUCH MOTORSPORTS,
CUSTOM GUAGE POD BY FINAL TOUCH MOTORSPORTS, CUSTOM ROLLBAR BY FINAL TOUCH MOTORSPORTS
Jump to top NVS PWR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Mon, Jan-11-2010, 02:49:21 AM   #13
deilenberger
Moderator
 
deilenberger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 14,170
Reputation: 578 deilenberger has a reputation beyond reputedeilenberger has a reputation beyond reputedeilenberger has a reputation beyond reputedeilenberger has a reputation beyond reputedeilenberger has a reputation beyond reputedeilenberger has a reputation beyond repute

United States




Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by NVS PWR View Post
Extended life oil changes are not good for any motor especially a high strung one- it is a marketing edge to make maintainance costs look lower all manufactures are doing it- their goal is to have you buy a new car when you finish your last payment and you warranty is up because the forever fluids did not hold up. so its either spend 4k on repairs on 4k on a down payment most people opt for the down payment new ride deaaler wins.

Why skimp on one of the cheapest engine insurance plans a $70 oil and filter change.

I have two E46 M3's that I change the oil every three thousand miles

one car has 86000 and the other one 92000
driven hard every day
NO VANOS FAILURE OR OTHER PROBLEMS
Sounds great. Even better than 3,000 mile changes would be 1,000 mile changes, or even 500 mile changes.. or how about you never start the engine and just keep pouring oil through it. That's where you're headed with your theory.
Quote:

THE LOW MILEAGE CARS with VANOS problems is due to the fact that the wonderful 15k mile CASTROL oil is breaking down and clogging the screens
Actually - not. There has been very little evidence of the "screens" getting clogged (there is one cone shaped filter - which was an idea of the moment here - pull it out and clean it.) The vast majority of people found it didn't need cleaning. Go figure.. The REAL Vanos problems are on late model cars where the cam-mating gear snaps off the two drive nubs, which then get caught under the chain, taking them up and over the two sprockets and grenading the valve cover. That is the VANOS problem (and I've seen no correlation to oil change frequency with it - it appears to be a materials failure by BMW - the finely engineered/constructed engine.) The other Vanos problems are due to either a bad solenoid or seals going bad.
Quote:

I USE LIQUI MOLY 10W-60 RACETECH OIL and one quart of SYNTHETIC LUCAS OIL ADDITIVE every three thousand miles
Well, good for you. The oil companies must love'ya.
Quote:

lAST Time the valve covers were off one car needed one valve shim- the time before neither car needed any-(no castrol in these cars)

The point is more oil changes equals less worry.

I change my trans,and diff fluids every 15k, in addition I change my fuel filter every 15k also.( I still get 17-19 mpg local and 25-28 mpg on the highway) with supporting mods

Nothing is made to last forever- and the more you maintain it the longer it will last.

Just my

some will appreciate it and some will have their own opinion.
Without oil tests it's ALL just opinion. Do some oil tests with Blackstone, in particular the extended change interval text ($10/extra) and see what they say about your 3,000 mile oil changes. It will cost less than one unneeded change.
__________________
Don Eilenberger AKA bellymeisterburgermeister and denilegiiiiiiiiiiiiibennnnegerieragher (but that's misspelled..)
  • About a dozen other BMWs through the years..
  • 2001 M-Coupe - TiSilver/Black - Das Boot.. - SOLD
  • 2002 M3C/6 - Imola Red/Black - SOLD
  • 2003 525iT - Green/Tan - SOLD - replaced with Lexus
  • 2006 Cayenne/S - Iceland Silver Metallic/Stone-steel Gray - Truckster. - SOLD
  • 2007 R1200R - Roadster, black mit/white pinstripes - SOLD and not forgotten..
  • 2012 R1200R - Roadster, Ruby Red - the new REAL BMW..
  • 2011 Lexus RX-350. SWMBO's new toy.
  • 2011 Porsche Cayenne Turbo, white/black. My new toy..

Last edited by deilenberger; Mon, Jan-11-2010 at 03:03:32 AM.
Jump to top deilenberger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Mon, Jan-11-2010, 02:59:32 AM   #14
deilenberger
Moderator
 
deilenberger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 14,170
Reputation: 578 deilenberger has a reputation beyond reputedeilenberger has a reputation beyond reputedeilenberger has a reputation beyond reputedeilenberger has a reputation beyond reputedeilenberger has a reputation beyond reputedeilenberger has a reputation beyond repute

United States




Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by trange1 View Post
I have been using only TWS and while complying with my valve adj. schedule I noticed wear on the aft cam lobes. I am definitely switching oil this next oil change however I feel that it is probably more important to change oil frequently than the brand of oil used.
Do you have any photos of your worn cam lobes? Some of the acceleration ramp (where the cam start pushing down on the cam-finger) and the lobe tip would be of interest.

I also didn't see - what year is your M3?
__________________
Don Eilenberger AKA bellymeisterburgermeister and denilegiiiiiiiiiiiiibennnnegerieragher (but that's misspelled..)
  • About a dozen other BMWs through the years..
  • 2001 M-Coupe - TiSilver/Black - Das Boot.. - SOLD
  • 2002 M3C/6 - Imola Red/Black - SOLD
  • 2003 525iT - Green/Tan - SOLD - replaced with Lexus
  • 2006 Cayenne/S - Iceland Silver Metallic/Stone-steel Gray - Truckster. - SOLD
  • 2007 R1200R - Roadster, black mit/white pinstripes - SOLD and not forgotten..
  • 2012 R1200R - Roadster, Ruby Red - the new REAL BMW..
  • 2011 Lexus RX-350. SWMBO's new toy.
  • 2011 Porsche Cayenne Turbo, white/black. My new toy..
Jump to top deilenberger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Mon, Jan-11-2010, 11:29:17 AM   #15
trange1
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 158
Reputation: 0 trange1 is on a distinguished road

United States




Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by deilenberger View Post
Do you have any photos of your worn cam lobes? Some of the acceleration ramp (where the cam start pushing down on the cam-finger) and the lobe tip would be of interest.

I also didn't see - what year is your M3?
I did take some photos. I believe I downloaded them to my laptop at home and unfortunately I'm not scheduled to go home until the end of the month.

I will definitely try to post them in this thread even if it will be 2 weeks from now as I am very interested in what others think about this problem.

I can tell you that I noticed the wear on two lobes in the aft end of the engine I believe on the intake side. The wear was near the tip and starting down the acceleration ramp as you describe.

Not looking to get into alternative oil argument yet again, but wouldn't you be concerned if you opened up your engine and saw the wear I'm describing. I am since I know that the car has only ever seen TWS and has been on BMW's maint. program for it's entire life.

This is not suppose to be happening as I and the previous owner have done everything right and by the book.

Oh, and the car is an 02/03

Thanks for any help from anyone.
Jump to top trange1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Mon, Jan-11-2010, 01:25:25 PM   #16
deilenberger
Moderator
 
deilenberger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 14,170
Reputation: 578 deilenberger has a reputation beyond reputedeilenberger has a reputation beyond reputedeilenberger has a reputation beyond reputedeilenberger has a reputation beyond reputedeilenberger has a reputation beyond reputedeilenberger has a reputation beyond repute

United States




Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by trange1 View Post
I did take some photos. I believe I downloaded them to my laptop at home and unfortunately I'm not scheduled to go home until the end of the month.

I will definitely try to post them in this thread even if it will be 2 weeks from now as I am very interested in what others think about this problem.

I can tell you that I noticed the wear on two lobes in the aft end of the engine I believe on the intake side. The wear was near the tip and starting down the acceleration ramp as you describe.

Not looking to get into alternative oil argument yet again, but wouldn't you be concerned if you opened up your engine and saw the wear I'm describing. I am since I know that the car has only ever seen TWS and has been on BMW's maint. program for it's entire life.
Without seeing what the wear is - dunno. If I had to guess - the wear wasn't due to the oil used.. it was more likely a manufacturing defect of some kind. What kind? Dunno - defective finger-follower mebbe? If this was the oil's fault, we'd be seeing a lot of complaints about it, and we're not. Yours is the first I've seen (aside from one chap who had an aftermarket cam in his car that experienced wear - with aftermarket, all bets are off..)
Quote:

This is not suppose to be happening as I and the previous owner have done everything right and by the book.

Oh, and the car is an 02/03

Thanks for any help from anyone.
OK, just checking to see if it was one of the '01 or early '02 cars that came with 5W-30 from the factory (before the change to TWS..) But even those cars - haven't heard of any rash of camshaft failures.
__________________
Don Eilenberger AKA bellymeisterburgermeister and denilegiiiiiiiiiiiiibennnnegerieragher (but that's misspelled..)
  • About a dozen other BMWs through the years..
  • 2001 M-Coupe - TiSilver/Black - Das Boot.. - SOLD
  • 2002 M3C/6 - Imola Red/Black - SOLD
  • 2003 525iT - Green/Tan - SOLD - replaced with Lexus
  • 2006 Cayenne/S - Iceland Silver Metallic/Stone-steel Gray - Truckster. - SOLD
  • 2007 R1200R - Roadster, black mit/white pinstripes - SOLD and not forgotten..
  • 2012 R1200R - Roadster, Ruby Red - the new REAL BMW..
  • 2011 Lexus RX-350. SWMBO's new toy.
  • 2011 Porsche Cayenne Turbo, white/black. My new toy..
Jump to top deilenberger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Mon, Jan-11-2010, 01:32:48 PM   #17
tenfifteen
Pale Geek Rigour
 
tenfifteen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 35,424
Reputation: 153 tenfifteen is a splendid one to beholdtenfifteen is a splendid one to behold
Location: MD/C

United States




Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by deilenberger View Post
Sigh..

Valves are done at EVERY INSPECTION SERVICE. It's in your manual, it's in the stickies, it's in the valve adjustment DIY. Do we have to tatoo it on people?
A thousand pardons sir, thanks for pointing out my error so politely.

Yes... it's done at every inspection. I forgot or missed it in the maintenance thread, but cannot find any mention of it whatsoever in the manual. On what page did you find it?
__________________
Jump to top tenfifteen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Mon, Jan-11-2010, 02:06:52 PM   #18
trange1
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 158
Reputation: 0 trange1 is on a distinguished road

United States




Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by deilenberger View Post
Without seeing what the wear is - dunno. If I had to guess - the wear wasn't due to the oil used.. it was more likely a manufacturing defect of some kind. What kind? Dunno - defective finger-follower mebbe? If this was the oil's fault, we'd be seeing a lot of complaints about it, and we're not. Yours is the first I've seen (aside from one chap who had an aftermarket cam in his car that experienced wear - with aftermarket, all bets are off..)
OK, just checking to see if it was one of the '01 or early '02 cars that came with 5W-30 from the factory (before the change to TWS..) But even those cars - haven't heard of any rash of camshaft failures.
Thanks for the civil reply.

I have been thinking about this problem for quite a while and have come to the conclusion that it would be in my best interest to keep using TWS.

Say for instance I switch oil and next time I c/w my valve adj. I notice significantly more wear than before. Not only will I not know if the different brand of oil accelerated the wear but BMW will be a lot less likely to be helpful with any repair costs even though I'm out of warranty, knowing TWS wasn't used.

Since I purchased the car I have increased my oil changes to once every 6 months which is about 5K mi. You maybe right about a manufacturing flaw but I'm sure the 15K mi BMW oil changes that were recommended didn't help the situation.

I agree that if this was a fault of TWS it would be a lot more common than what I have been able to find.
Jump to top trange1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Mon, Jan-11-2010, 04:22:44 PM   #19
deilenberger
Moderator
 
deilenberger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 14,170
Reputation: 578 deilenberger has a reputation beyond reputedeilenberger has a reputation beyond reputedeilenberger has a reputation beyond reputedeilenberger has a reputation beyond reputedeilenberger has a reputation beyond reputedeilenberger has a reputation beyond repute

United States




Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tenfifteen View Post
A thousand pardons sir, thanks for pointing out my error so politely.

Yes... it's done at every inspection. I forgot or missed it in the maintenance thread, but cannot find any mention of it whatsoever in the manual. On what page did you find it?
I don't have my manuals in front of me - but I know in my M-Coupe manuals (which has an S54 in it) - the Inspection I and II schedules are in the Service and Warranty manual (the one where the dealer stamps that service has been performed - although that seems about unknown in the USA..) Probably the same place on the M3 manuals. I'll have to take a peek..
__________________
Don Eilenberger AKA bellymeisterburgermeister and denilegiiiiiiiiiiiiibennnnegerieragher (but that's misspelled..)
  • About a dozen other BMWs through the years..
  • 2001 M-Coupe - TiSilver/Black - Das Boot.. - SOLD
  • 2002 M3C/6 - Imola Red/Black - SOLD
  • 2003 525iT - Green/Tan - SOLD - replaced with Lexus
  • 2006 Cayenne/S - Iceland Silver Metallic/Stone-steel Gray - Truckster. - SOLD
  • 2007 R1200R - Roadster, black mit/white pinstripes - SOLD and not forgotten..
  • 2012 R1200R - Roadster, Ruby Red - the new REAL BMW..
  • 2011 Lexus RX-350. SWMBO's new toy.
  • 2011 Porsche Cayenne Turbo, white/black. My new toy..
Jump to top deilenberger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Mon, Jan-11-2010, 04:24:08 PM   #20
nwthunder
Registered User
 
nwthunder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 180
Reputation: 0 nwthunder is on a distinguished road
Location: Seattle

United States




Default

3000m for me
__________________
TT 04.5 Cummins
03.5 E46 M
Jump to top nwthunder is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
change, interval, miles, oil, time

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT. The time now is 08:28:49 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
M3Forum.com and M3forum.net is in no way sponsored, endorsed or affiliated by or with BMW NA / BMW AG or any of it's subsidiaries or vendors.
BMW and M3 (E90 M3 | E92 M3 | E93 M3 | E46 M3 | E36 M3 | E30 M3) are registered trademarks of BMW AG.
M3Forum Terms of Service
Copyright 1999-2017 M3Forum.com
Discussing Oil Change Interval (Miles and Time) in the E46 M3 (2001-2006) Forum - Engine: S54 - Max Hp: 333 hp at 7,900 rpm / 262 lb/ft at 4,900 rpm
Total Produced: 45,000+ - Years Produced: 2001 to 2006. at BMW M3 Forum.com (E30 M3 | E36 M3 | E46 M3 | E92 M3 | F80/X)