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E46 M3 (2001-2006) Engine: S54 - Max Hp: 333 hp at 7,900 rpm / 262 lb/ft at 4,900 rpm
Total Produced: 45,000+ - Years Produced: 2001 to 2006.


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Old Wed, Aug-16-2017, 04:51:58 PM   #21
BearDeXPS
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Default Re: 100 Degree Day - Car overheards 3/4 mark with AC on.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lmtfi View Post
Thats not right. I have run track days at exactly 99 and 100F with heat soaks far more than one can see on the street - with zero temp climb above middle range.

You should find the cause of your temp climb.
Quote:
Originally Posted by EricSMG View Post
Overheating is not normal - the needle should literally never move or something is wrong, excluding extreme circumstances. 10 years, 5 of these cars, never had the need,e move above straight up. Needle should never, ever climb past middle.

Regarding the AUX fan - there is no test required, only listen. When it's on its LOUD, even at less than full tilt. Pull into your garage with the windows down with AC on and shut off motor - if you don't hear a very distinct fan noise your fan ain't workin. Hell just stand next to the car with motor and AC on......mega fan noise should be obvious.

Oil temp will climb, normal.
No it's pretty much the status-quo - all but one that I know off overheats at COTA during summer events. These cars just sux during high heat - I'm someone who can admit it.

My coolant overheating issues are well documented... don't know what to say other then these issues are very prevalent in my area and relative geo-location on this platform and the e9x.

Had issues with completely stock system.

Replaced complete system - OE expansion tank, water pump, thermostat, both sensors, all hoses, fan clutch, fan blades + mishimoto radiator. 80% distilled water + water wetter & OE coolant. All heat shields remain, headers coated/wrapped.

Bled system multiple times (this forum over complicates this simple process)

Mishimoto re-designed their radiator based off mine/Hacksaws noted design flaws.

Replaced with C&R radiator - better, not perfect.

Then tried AA sport fan clutch - better, not perfect.

Re-built engine; obviously re-assembled everything - same cooling issues.

Installed Mishimoto electric fan - much better, not perfect.

Again, 100*F is my tipping point. Our outdated climate control is hard to go back to from my super comfy DD in extreme heat anyways so I park my car in the summer - no big deal to me - IDGAF

Only thing left is to change from the C&R radiator and replace/remove the pusher fan... but again, I hate driving this car in the summer. Another variable is tune - but even that's been modified a few times. If I move on to a S/C then I'll need to replace the radiator - but the data-point won't be apples-apples.

There is a ceiling... and 100*F is about it.
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Old Wed, Aug-16-2017, 07:53:04 PM   #22
lmtfi
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Default Re: 100 Degree Day - Car overheards 3/4 mark with AC on.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BearDeXPS View Post
No it's pretty much the status-quo - all but one that I know off overheats at COTA during summer events. These cars just sux during high heat - I'm someone who can admit it.

My coolant overheating issues are well documented... don't know what to say other then these issues are very prevalent in my area and relative geo-location on this platform and the e9x.

Had issues with completely stock system.

Replaced complete system - OE expansion tank, water pump, thermostat, both sensors, all hoses, fan clutch, fan blades + mishimoto radiator. 80% distilled water + water wetter & OE coolant. All heat shields remain, headers coated/wrapped.

Bled system multiple times (this forum over complicates this simple process)

Mishimoto re-designed their radiator based off mine/Hacksaws noted design flaws.

Replaced with C&R radiator - better, not perfect.

Then tried AA sport fan clutch - better, not perfect.

Re-built engine; obviously re-assembled everything - same cooling issues.

Installed Mishimoto electric fan - much better, not perfect.

Again, 100*F is my tipping point. Our outdated climate control is hard to go back to from my super comfy DD in extreme heat anyways so I park my car in the summer - no big deal to me - IDGAF

Only thing left is to change from the C&R radiator and replace/remove the pusher fan... but again, I hate driving this car in the summer. Another variable is tune - but even that's been modified a few times. If I move on to a S/C then I'll need to replace the radiator - but the data-point won't be apples-apples.

There is a ceiling... and 100*F is about it.

Okay - but 100 degrees F is 100 degrees F - regardless of where it is. I have run two different E46 M3s in 100F heat with zero temp issues. The only difference in the setups are OE system components.

I have seen quite a few E46 M3s run in the same heat for years - with OE systems with no overheating issues. And most of them weren't even using 100% water.
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Old Wed, Aug-16-2017, 09:09:37 PM   #23
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Default Re: 100 Degree Day - Car overheards 3/4 mark with AC on.

Yep, my cars can sit idling with the AC on in 105 and not blink. In this situation the AUX fan as screaming at full tilt - it's all you can hear if standing by the car.

That said, perhaps the relative humidity level plays a roll here as it is very dry in San Diego even though it can get very hot away from the coast (where I live).
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Old Thu, Aug-17-2017, 02:46:29 AM   #24
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Default Re: 100 Degree Day - Car overheards 3/4 mark with AC on.

I think it also depends on how you drive - I noticed the car heats up if I just keep it in 2nd and let the revs climb in slow, stop and go traffic
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Old Sat, Aug-19-2017, 04:27:00 AM   #25
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Default Re: 100 Degree Day - Car overheards 3/4 mark with AC on.

Op, I've been trying to solve this same exact issue too. Temp needle starts climbing up to second dot when hot and going uphill. Changed a few parts (thermostat, fan clutch) pressure checked system, two different mechanics can't figure it out. May do radiator soon.
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Old Mon, Aug-21-2017, 03:01:16 PM   #26
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Default Re: 100 Degree Day - Car overheards 3/4 mark with AC on.

It was 101 degrees F over the weekend here in FL, with 99% humidity. I took the M out, oil temp reached 210 in 20 mins or so. I never push the car beyond 5k until the oil reaches 210. Had AC running on auto, ran errands for maybe 2 hours, made a few stops etc., hit the red line a few times along the way and back. Temp gauge didn't blink; stayed in the middle and the car felt as strong as usual. Everything in the car is stock.
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Old Tue, Aug-22-2017, 06:31:35 AM   #27
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Default Re: 100 Degree Day - Car overheards 3/4 mark with AC on.

Thanks everyone. My car has 110k miles. Even if I were to just do the fan clutch, water pump is probably next to go, thebn radiator, etc......... think a full refresh is probably smart right now to do. So that will be on my list.

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Old Wed, Aug-23-2017, 12:34:58 AM   #28
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Default Re: 100 Degree Day - Car overheards 3/4 mark with AC on.

This is interesting. Have you monitored live temp numbers while driving through the OBC unlock display? I've been monitoring my temp numbers due to the heat lately. Recently had a cooling refresh and am seeing fluctuations.

Also, does anyone know what the OBC test 7.1 ambient temps exactly correlate to? Is it the outside ambient temp or perhaps IAT temp or something else? My outside temp gauge will show, for example 85F while that obc7.1 test monitor will range from 40-50C while driving, despite the outside temperature staying relatively the same. At 50C (122F) that is a drastic difference than the 85F displaying at the same time.
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Old Wed, Aug-23-2017, 02:09:55 AM   #29
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Default Re: 100 Degree Day - Car overheards 3/4 mark with AC on.

Is "creeping up" really a problem? IIRC the M3's coolant gauge is programmed to be much more reactive/less buffered than regular E46's - [quoting terra on ZHPmafia]

Non-M Default M3 Default Recommended non-M Function / Angle
0x0F (15C) 0x0F (15C) 0x0F (15C) Gauge Start (0)
0x32 (50C) 0x3C (60C) 0x41 (65C) End of Blue (15.5)
0x4B (75C) 0x55 (85C) 0x5A (90C) Center (Buffer Start) (45)
0x73 (115C) 0x5F (95C) 0x64 (100C) Center (Buffer End) (45)
0x7D (125C) 0x69 (105C) 0x6E (110C) Start of Red (79)
0x8F (143C) 0x73 (115C) 0x73 (115C) End of Red or LED on?? (84)

105*C heading into red really isn't that hot. Between vertical and the start of the red zone is only 15*C. BMW designed it to not run perfectly vertical.

I've been running with no aux fan for the last 6 months and mine will very occasionally start heading towards 3/4 going up a hill in a low gear or something, but then it comes right back down. I have a Stack ECT in the radiator outlet that never goes past 220*F

I'm pretty sure the factory gauge uses radiator outlet and engine ECT to give the gauge reading, so it kind of makes sense that the temp would read higher before the hot coolant has a chance to make it's way out to the radiator.
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Old Sat, Aug-26-2017, 01:26:28 AM   #30
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Default Re: 100 Degree Day - Car overheards 3/4 mark with AC on.

FYI, the shop I took my car to just got back to me:

Not enough oil is getting routed to the oil cooler

Smoking gun symptom:
At full operating temperature (ie. driving for 20+ minutes w/ AC on), the engine oil temp is 200F+ (measured via onboard computer), but the oil cooler temp is only ~120F in, out, or at fins (measured via IR thermometer).

His opinion is to replace the oil cooler and engine oil thermostat (and I suspect the lines for all of it too). He says it's all likely gummed up, and since I don't know how long this has been going on as I've only owned it for 3 months, I'm inclined to agree.

I'll report back on this thread after we get everything replaced on whether or not this solves my issue.

Hopefully this points someone else towards finding the root cause for their high coolant temperatures too!

Side question: What is the PN for the engine oil thermostat the mechanic is talking about? I can't find it on realoem.com.
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Discussing 100 Degree Day - Car overheards 3/4 mark with AC on. in the E46 M3 (2001-2006) Forum - Engine: S54 - Max Hp: 333 hp at 7,900 rpm / 262 lb/ft at 4,900 rpm
Total Produced: 45,000+ - Years Produced: 2001 to 2006. at BMW M3 Forum.com (E30 M3 | E36 M3 | E46 M3 | E92 M3 | F80/X)