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E46 M3 (2001-2006) Engine: S54 - Max Hp: 333 hp at 7,900 rpm / 262 lb/ft at 4,900 rpm
Total Produced: 45,000+ - Years Produced: 2001 to 2006.


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Old Tue, Jan-10-2017, 08:02:35 PM   #11
Slowmobile
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Default Re: VANOS Timing Sanity Check

SliM3 is that what the hole on top of the hub is for? I found a punch that slipped in perfectly into the hole but it wouldnt turn (probably because of the spline being more axial than lateral) and I didn't want to pry at it too hard.

Also ok I will try to preload the hubs. However, backing out a quarter turn on the 2 bolts on each hub is to make sure that the hub can still rotate free of the cams... thought just slightly correct?
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Old Wed, Jan-11-2017, 04:16:33 AM   #12
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Default Re: VANOS Timing Sanity Check

Just timed it again making sure to do the preload step. Got the same results as yesterday. Timing is dead nuts while bolting all the VANOS bolts in. Timing is still on point after I tighten the 4 top bolts on each side. Then after rotating to the bottom, tightening that, and rotating back to TDC with cam lobes 1 at 45, the timing is off again. The intake side is off maybe 1mm this time, exhaust side is off probably 2mm. Both are lifted on the intake side. Any other possibilities?
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Last edited by Slowmobile; Wed, Jan-11-2017 at 04:30:25 AM.
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Old Wed, Jan-11-2017, 10:02:14 AM   #13
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Default Re: VANOS Timing Sanity Check

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slowmobile View Post
Just timed it again making sure to do the preload step. Got the same results as yesterday. Timing is dead nuts while bolting all the VANOS bolts in. Timing is still on point after I tighten the 4 top bolts on each side. Then after rotating to the bottom, tightening that, and rotating back to TDC with cam lobes 1 at 45, the timing is off again. The intake side is off maybe 1mm this time, exhaust side is off probably 2mm. Both are lifted on the intake side. Any other possibilities?


After you get done turning the engine are you trying to rotate the cams with a wrench (with crank locked)?

What you describe sounds pretty darn close. Do you have GT1/DIS? If so, run the Vanos test.
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Old Wed, Jan-11-2017, 12:32:58 PM   #14
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Default Re: VANOS Timing Sanity Check

What you've described is exactly what I ran into when I did Beisan work. And retarding the cams, if they needed it, only makes it worse, since the bridge is lifted on the intake side. I was following Beisan's procedure to the T, and did it 3-4 times.

I put it all back together, and VANOS DIS test told me it was off by half a degree on one cam, zero degrees on the other cam. Decided that was good. It was a mystery to me then, and still is - although I still think its rooted somewhere in the movement of those splines/pistons:

http://www.m3forum.net/m3forum/showthread.php?t=530782

There's some notes in there relating bridge lift to approximate degrees of cam rotation too.

I did this with a friend who did his own car at the same time, claimed he didn't experience the issue after rotating around, and was off by a few degrees on each cam on the adaptations.


What about an additional step where you tighten those top hub bolts, then add a cam retard step with the 24mm wrench (sends pistons back to their stops), loosen hub bolts, realign cams with bridge, then tighten top hubs bolts? Although, for this to work, these basically has to be no oil in the VANOS unit, or at least all the seals loosened.
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Last edited by ThrowinShapes; Wed, Jan-11-2017 at 12:53:57 PM.
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Old Wed, Jan-11-2017, 01:37:44 PM   #15
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Default Re: VANOS Timing Sanity Check

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slowmobile View Post
Just timed it again making sure to do the preload step. Got the same results as yesterday. Timing is dead nuts while bolting all the VANOS bolts in. Timing is still on point after I tighten the 4 top bolts on each side. Then after rotating to the bottom, tightening that, and rotating back to TDC with cam lobes 1 at 45, the timing is off again. The intake side is off maybe 1mm this time, exhaust side is off probably 2mm. Both are lifted on the intake side. Any other possibilities?
Are you sure the crank pin is consistently all the way in? On my car, there was just enough corrosion on the harmonic balancer that kept the pin from seating smoothly.

What I did was scribe a reference mark on the pin.
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Last edited by elbert; Wed, Jan-11-2017 at 06:56:17 PM.
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Old Thu, Jan-12-2017, 07:48:21 AM   #16
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Default Re: VANOS Timing Sanity Check

Redid the timing AGAIN. Getting closer. Intake side is now .5mm to dead nuts more or less. Exhaust side is 1-1.5mm... I am debating whether to just call it a day and put everything back together. Then run the VANOS test and go from there?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThunderMoose View Post
After you get done turning the engine are you trying to rotate the cams with a wrench (with crank locked)?

What you describe sounds pretty darn close. Do you have GT1/DIS? If so, run the Vanos test.
Yup. Cams wont budge.

No I dont have either but I think I may be able to get it...

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThrowinShapes View Post
What about an additional step where you tighten those top hub bolts, then add a cam retard step with the 24mm wrench (sends pistons back to their stops), loosen hub bolts, realign cams with bridge, then tighten top hubs bolts? Although, for this to work, these basically has to be no oil in the VANOS unit, or at least all the seals loosened.
My cams wont budge the splined shafts a bit. Might have to do with my diaphragm springs too...

Quote:
Originally Posted by elbert View Post
Are you sure the crank pin is consistently all the way in? On my car, there was just enough corrosion on the harmonic balancer that kept the pin from seating smoothly.

What I did was scribe a reference mark on the pin.
Yep. I actually stick a endoscope usb camera down there to verify the hole is sort of aligned and then I wiggle my crank to get the pin in. Plus my pin has a nice, orange colored rust coating so it makes it really easy to tell haha.
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Last edited by Slowmobile; Thu, Jan-12-2017 at 07:53:01 AM.
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Old Thu, Jan-12-2017, 12:19:01 PM   #17
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Default Re: VANOS Timing Sanity Check

Will the cam not advance either? Sounds like you may not be overcoming the forces holding the cam in place.

If you do go in again, try practicing moving the cams with the VANOS off. It takes quite a bit of rocking and force to overcome the steep spline angle and valve spring forces. Here's Beisan's notes:
Note: Camshaft rotation is most effective when standing at exhaust side of car.
Note: Rock camshaft back and forth to release bind and allow rotation.

Once the VANOS is bolted back up, and you get the cams moving, you will be able to hear a faint clink as the cam fully retards and the piston hits its stop.
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Old Fri, Jan-13-2017, 01:32:47 AM   #18
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Default Re: VANOS Timing Sanity Check

I actually talked to Raj about this and one thing that came up as a problem was the updated S62 springs might be so strong that it is binding it beyond your ability to move it with a wrench. Mine just seem to be completely stuck once I have them tightened. I can rock it till I'm rocking the engine and the whole car a little bit and it still won't move.
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Old Fri, Jan-13-2017, 05:07:15 AM   #19
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Default Re: VANOS Timing Sanity Check

It's been a year since I did mine. You didn't mention whether you had the sprockets and chain off. If so, there is a BMW procedure in the TIS for reinstalling them. Follow it.

Since I was installing Beisan parts, I used the Beisan procedure. I followed it exactly. I also read the BMW procedure that's described in the TIS, because I felt it gave me a better understanding of how the timing procedure works. (TIS covers sprocket and chain installation as one of the steps of a complete head reassembly / reinstallation.) There are other procedures that deviate from Beisan and BMW where the splined shafts are installed in the hub separately from the VANOS. I hold the view that such procedures should not be used because they cannot repeatably ensure timing is correct.

From my memory, it's very important to have both camshafts fully retarded. In my case, I had to use a hammer back and forth on the wrench to overcome the friction.

The Beisan procedure for torquing the hub bolts is important for reasons described above. If the hubs are not flat against the sprockets, it's possible for the splined shafts to be off by a tooth.

The pistons should be fully depressed into the VANOS unit when it is installed. Be sure you rotate the hub no more than necessary to allow the splined shaft to engage.

Be sure the bridge is resting perfectly flat on the cylinder head surface with no valve cover gasket. (I've seen photos of the bridge being used over top of the valve cover gasket. This is wrong.) I found that I could only insert a pin into one camshaft at a time. The pin would slide in with virtually no pressure, one camshaft at a time with the bridge perfectly flat on the cylinder head.

If you follow this procedure, you should be able to get the timing right. The camshafts do rotate after rotating the engine, so be sure they are both fully retarded before checking the timing.

Good luck.
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Old Sat, Jan-28-2017, 05:38:25 PM   #20
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Default Re: VANOS Timing Sanity Check

OP, did you ever figure out your issue?
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Discussing VANOS Timing Sanity Check in the E46 M3 (2001-2006) Forum - Engine: S54 - Max Hp: 333 hp at 7,900 rpm / 262 lb/ft at 4,900 rpm
Total Produced: 45,000+ - Years Produced: 2001 to 2006. at BMW M3 Forum.com (E30 M3 | E36 M3 | E46 M3 | E92 M3 | F80/X)