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E46 M3 (2001-2006) Engine: S54 - Max Hp: 333 hp at 7,900 rpm / 262 lb/ft at 4,900 rpm
Total Produced: 45,000+ - Years Produced: 2001 to 2006.


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Old Tue, Oct-16-2018, 03:24:38 PM   #391
icecream
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Default Re: BMW upset with E46 M3 enthusiasts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paulo M View Post
New m5 looking like a new Camry from the rear lmao


Hahaha. And who asked for a Camry with quad tail pipes? You want a sporty car pony up and buy a real one haha.
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Old Tue, Oct-16-2018, 03:27:17 PM   #392
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Default Re: BMW upset with E46 M3 enthusiasts

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Originally Posted by gearhead55 View Post
Ehh, the 666m wheels are growing on me actually. I vascilate between those and the 513m for the f80.
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Same here. I am starting to really dig the 666M wheels. They are kind of a modern interpretation of the classic BBS wheels.

Poor choice of part designation though ;-)


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr M3an M3 View Post
The F80 M3's curves just wears that blue so well. While the coupe (M4) doesn't do much for me (I like the front end, but the side profile looks like a bloated Tiburon to me, especially compared to the E92 M3's profile which I like a lot better) in the looks department, the 4-door (M3) is a very attractive looking car. It's probably the most attractive 4-door sedan on the current market, especially in this factory spec (and I have never been a 4-door car person; I much prefer 2-door coupes). However, it doesn't move me as a "sports" car in the same way the 46M does (probably due to being a big sedan -- It would make for an excellent M5), but that car would make an awesome DD/People hauler to save the 46M for the weekends when driving solo. You just can't beat the sensory overload from a stepped header/CSL airboxed S54....That's what I think really lets me down about the M3/M4...the lack of sensory overload from the engine's noise. It's just not a good sounding motor in any form that I've heard it....not in the same way that the S54 engages the senses, with it's raw and yet organic (not artificial or forced) noises it produces. If the F80 M3 had the option to carry over a variation of the S85...it would be a real winner.
I could not have expressed that any better. EXACTLY how I feel about it.


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Originally Posted by Obioban View Post
I actually feel like the e46 M3 reputation has been turning around in the last 1-3 years?

Probably helped that Hagerty designated it as a future classic and the fact that newer BMW are crap........just to get back on topic, ha!


Side note: The reputation varies depending on what part of the world. I know my cousins in Switzerland were poking fun at me 3 years ago for buying another e46 M3. The reputation of it over there is quite different than here. Not really considered a cool car, at least not 3 years ago. Too many wannabes (people who couldn't afford a new BMW) were buying them and gave them a bad rap. Especially a certain ethnic group that migrated in to the country.........I'll leave it at that. Not my words, so don't shoot the messenger.
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Old Tue, Oct-16-2018, 03:33:22 PM   #393
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Default Re: BMW upset with E46 M3 enthusiasts

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Originally Posted by icecream View Post
Hahaha. And who asked for a Camry with quad tail pipes? You want a sporty car pony up and buy a real one haha.
According to Mazda they drive better than modern BMWs, so..
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Old Tue, Oct-16-2018, 03:36:28 PM   #394
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Default Re: BMW upset with E46 M3 enthusiasts

Iíve owned my E46 since 2013, and I donít remember ever getting angry looks from people, even when I used to drive like an ass. But maybe itís because I donít look at people when Iím driving..Iíve had passengers comment that people were looking at my car.

Last week, I did get this look from a guy walking near campus. It was hilarious. Maybe he saw that the front end of my car means serious bidness?

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Old Tue, Oct-16-2018, 03:43:41 PM   #395
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Default Re: BMW upset with E46 M3 enthusiasts

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Originally Posted by PenguinScotty View Post
Since i've never owned a new car and i greatly enjoy wrenching on my own cars, my biggest worries nowadays, especially with the F8x cars, is the technology in it. The E46 M3 is barely on the edge for me regarding this, with annoying programming things, drive by wire throttle, etc..
Friend of my owns a M4, pre face-lift, manual. Pretty car, stupid fast, yet i would never own it without a warranty. The Lithium battery went flat in about 1-2 weeks because the car is, effectively, constantly online. A new one from BMW seems to run about 1300 Euros. The ceramic discs had a chip. Luckily, not bad enough to warrant replacement, yet seems to simply be a question of time, with that cost scaring the poop out of me, honestly.
Retrofitting the LCI taillights requires coding, as it does for the E46 M3s LED lights, which is another thing that i despise.

Aside from these things that came up, stuff that undoubtedly will be an issue down the road, are things like the Direct Injection as well as the intercoolers/piping. Stuff like the crank-pulley already is being addressed and is, arguably, less of a pain, and cheaper, than the E46s Subframe, VANOS and Rod Bearing issues.

Whereas the serviceability of the E46 M3 is actually REALLY good, aside from the crap that was added for the US market, looking at the S55 gives me absolute nightmares. It reminds me of changing spark-plugs on the N55, which takes close to an hour. Nightmares of coked intake valves, engine sucking in water due to a broken intercooler/piping, of crevices inaccessible to normal human hands, requiring me to use child-labor or tear the entire front of a car apart, similar to Audis, get conjured up.

For me, these cars, as stupendously fast and comfortable and whatever else they may be, are just not realistic in the long-term. If we think that the maintenance on the E46s are bad, i'd say wait 10 more years for current cars to reach their peak of reliability atrocity

Never thought i'd turn into one of those "Old guy yells at cloud" people, but damn!
I have a very stubborn friend with a "built" S4 Avant that often talks about taking his engine out to do this and that. He loves the car because it is what he created and poured his money and sweat equity into. Every time I hear about some poor Audi owner though, it makes me laugh. Why do they do this to themselves?

One aspect of older BMWs that I always enjoyed was the relative reliability and relative ease of repairs. Any idiot with tools, space, and basic computer skills can do just able anything on these cars in a day or two. This is going to offend some people, but the e46 M3 is only an excellent car due to the value. It doesn't offer true sports car looks or performance, but it also doesn't require the same investment. You can spend 15k-20k on a car and get an excellent do-it-all style car that is easy to work on and is relatively reliable. You can daily the car easily and no one at the grocery store is going to be a weirdo about it.

These newer cars are all going to be much, much more difficult for the average enthusiast to work on after the warranty expires and cost far more too. They are going to require tons of coding, replacing hard to access parts that are even less serviceable, and are more expensive despite breaking more due to all the electronic bells and whistles. At that point, you have to ask why you are even messing around with real sports car maintenance and cost levels without the experience of Porsche, NSX, Viper, Ferrari etc ? In the end, with these newer cars, it looks like you will get the Audi experience my friend has that left me wondering why they didn't just spend all that money on a nice sports car in the first place (they have the money...). I know that when I upgrade again in a couple years, I won't be looking back to BMW because the value just won't be there.

Last edited by neopolymath; Tue, Oct-16-2018 at 04:06:23 PM.
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Old Tue, Oct-16-2018, 04:18:48 PM   #396
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Default Re: BMW upset with E46 M3 enthusiasts

Chiming in as I've owned and driven many Porsches... mostly water cooled though (SC, 964, 997, 991, GTS, GT3, GT3 RS, GT2, 981, 987, Pannies, Piggies and Macans).

I think this is a very worthy discussion for fans of this brand past and present.

I'll start by saying I've never had a Porsche poster on my wall as a kid. I had two E46 M3 posters. I wanted to name my future dog Bimmer and an M5 was my aspirational car to say 'i've made it'.

Fast forward to the point where I've worked a few years after school living in NYC with no car, my career took off, moved to Chicago and I can afford most cars someone with a mortgage and a kid can afford.

I totally skipped BMW and went right to Porsche. As a pragmatist it had nothing to do with 'label alignment'. Porsche actually engaged me first and encouraged me to learn more about the brand. BMW did none of this despite a decade of raising my hand. Also, Porsche's cars are very good and they of course command a premium to a BMW for that.

Porsche has done a case study worthy job of building and maintaining brand equity through motorsport, media (print and video publications) and events (rennsport, 919 EVO tour). This is what the plebes like us have access to. Then there's the VIP global events. I've been to and read much about the VIP owner events for the UHNW folks too. Those are on another level.

They are also excellent at managing supply and demand +1 which drives buyers CRAZY but creates a false sense of scarcity and false sense of urgency driving brand engagement through the roof. And options options options. Literally everything under the sun is available if you have the coin. And our culture today is all about customization so that plays well for them.

BMW does none of this or at least almost none.

Enthusiasts who buy these cars are undoubtedly a small segment of either company's customer base, but they drive almost ALL of the owned and earned brand equity. And in my humble opinion BMW abandoned that a decade ago which puts us where we are now. Where experts still opine that the CSL was the best BMW ever made. It defined BMW's ethos and was quietly sunsetted.

We see a glimmer of that in the 1 Series M and M2 but it's not what BMW has used to define itself anymore. They lean more towards image than substance now and that's a damn shame. I hope this BMW exec doesn't speak for the company but something tells me it's a shared sentiment.

I read someone else state this here and I'll reiterate that I have no idea how a car with this level of performance and fit/finish (if maintained properly) can cost $10k-$20k out the door these days and for as little as $10k you can compete with 911s on track WITH A USABLE TRUNK. There were many of these made but few were coveted by long term owners. BMW never embraced the E46 owners group like Porsche eventually did for the G bodies and 964s. And we know where prices of those cars have gone.

It's all grassroots now for the E46 so I say keep shouting from the top of a mountain at BMW if we want to see any of that change. Meanwhile, guys like me will pick up our poster car for a song, put a little elbow grease into it and shake our head in disbelief everytime we start it up that BMW has yet to make as 'good' a car.
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Last edited by nwGTS; Tue, Oct-16-2018 at 04:33:46 PM.
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Discussing BMW upset with E46 M3 enthusiasts in the E46 M3 (2001-2006) Forum - Engine: S54 - Max Hp: 333 hp at 7,900 rpm / 262 lb/ft at 4,900 rpm
Total Produced: 45,000+ - Years Produced: 2001 to 2006. at BMW M3 Forum.com (E30 M3 | E36 M3 | E46 M3 | E92 M3 | F80/X)