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E46 M3 (2001-2006) Engine: S54 - Max Hp: 333 hp at 7,900 rpm / 262 lb/ft at 4,900 rpm
Total Produced: 45,000+ - Years Produced: 2001 to 2006.


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Old Tue, Nov-12-2019, 11:10:25 PM   #51
stash1
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Default Re: Ross performance s54 harmonic balancer

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Originally Posted by liam821 View Post
I would lean towards an ATI damper in a racing application just because they're all SFI approved - not sure if Ross has that or not?

EDIT: Looks like the Ross damper complies with SFI spec 18.1.

I run an ATI super damper in my time attack car - it's been flawless.

That's a funny looking S54!
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Old Tue, Nov-12-2019, 11:22:31 PM   #52
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Default Re: Ross performance s54 harmonic balancer

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Originally Posted by stash1 View Post
That's a funny looking S54!
heh I was wondering if anybody would notice. But honestly like you said, it is gonna be difficult to notice the difference. I'd think you need some pretty specialized testing equipment to detect the harmonic differences between the pullies. Be an interesting science project.
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Old Wed, Nov-13-2019, 12:10:43 AM   #53
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Default Re: Ross performance s54 harmonic balancer

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Originally Posted by Paulo M View Post
Curious, how do you review something like this? Will he feel/see/hear a difference from a good condition factory one?

My hope is it will smoothen out some of the vibrations that come in at redline. Maybe thereís a way to hook in a mechanics stethoscope and actually graph the engine harmonics. Iíll be getting more consistent with my oil analysis as well once I have it installed


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Originally Posted by terraphantm View Post
That doesn't inspire confidence for a critical engine component.

Agree to a degree, but looking at their other products I believe theyíre built to run a sensor on them. I think itís called a crank sensor trigger or something like that.
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Old Wed, Feb-05-2020, 05:54:29 AM   #54
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Default Re: Ross performance s54 harmonic balancer

I found this very in depth article about crank dampers thatís worth a read if you want to learn about the variables going into harmonic damper design.

https://harmonicdampers.com/index.ph...id=4&chapter=0
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Old Wed, Feb-05-2020, 07:15:04 PM   #55
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Default Re: Ross performance s54 harmonic balancer

Is this product canceled? Their website no longer lists it.
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Old Wed, Feb-05-2020, 07:30:13 PM   #56
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Default Re: Ross performance s54 harmonic balancer

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Originally Posted by daumas View Post
Is this product canceled? Their website no longer lists it.


Iíve gotten the updated dampers but I havenít had time to install and test them. I have quite a bit going on and itís ski season but I should be able to get it test fit on a spare M3 soonish.
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Old Wed, Feb-05-2020, 08:47:44 PM   #57
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Default Re: Ross performance s54 harmonic balancer

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Originally Posted by Blaikenstein View Post
I found this very in depth article about crank dampers that’s worth a read if you want to learn about the variables going into harmonic damper design.

https://harmonicdampers.com/index.ph...id=4&chapter=0

Excellent read! But, this has not increased my desire for an aftermarket harmonic damper



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The question of how a damper manufacturer takes all these things into account to design for an aftermarket application is a complex one.
  • One way is to take measurements of representative engines with an instrument called a torsiograph. This tells where all the peaks are in the RPM range, how high and what frequency they are. The graphical output is a 3D map that looks a lot like a fuel or spark curve map. (An example is shown above)
  • A few dampers sized and/or tuned differently pretty quickly show the best combinations. This can be done in a day or two on the dyno, but is not exactly cheap. Torsiograph equipment goes for around $30,000 if you buy it, $500 - $1,000 a day if you rent it with an operator and dyno time is $1,000 a day or so. Don't forget the price of the motor and experimental dampers and the fuel.
  • A second method is to use computer models of the engine and run the engine/damper combinations on the computer. Once set up, this goes fairly fast and is usually accurate within 10%-15% unless the engine model has been adjusted to agree with data from a real engine test. Then the accuracy gets to a within a few %.
    • Even the best of computer models still have trouble with predicting running temperatures and changes in the rubber characteristics with changing temperature and motion.
    • Another problem is getting good cylinder pressure curves. This is hard to do right and thus expensive. Many times, the only alternative is to use "generic" data or curves from another engine.
    • Computer programs for doing this modeling are presently available, but not cheap, and only available from some of the big developers such as Ricardo and AVL. Other big OEM companies have proprietary in-house programs, but will not sell them.
  • The laboratory testing rig for doing a frequency- damping-temperature test on a damper runs the OEM's about $50,000 to $100,000 depending on the amount of computer automation. How many aftermarket makers have made this commitment?
  • The typical OEM requirement (in addition to an engine torsion test) is a life test that is some combination of time/heat/dynamic load that simulates at least 100,000-mile durability. It typically takes 1,000 hrs. of lab time to do that simulation on several parts to get OEM approval. Again, how many aftermarket makers attempt this?
  • Torsion data and curves on various engines
    • These are hard to find; not because they don't exist, but because the folks who pay the price for that data then OWN the data and are mostly reluctant to show that hard- earned knowledge to the world (their competitors).
    • Most of the curves you see in advertising are very stripped versions of the whole picture. It is fairly easy to pick the portions of the data that give the best- looking results. Don't look for much in the way of identifying labels of orders or totals. (Totals are the motion of all the orders added together; significant because the engine sees all that motion as a whole)
  • Having said all that, there are some good aftermarket designs that perform and survive. The good ones do more homework than the copycats. How many offshore copiers are running dyno tests or any durability testing? Let the buyer beware. Don't be afraid to ask them about how they do their homework. Good luck trying to get any data. Most of them hide behind the curtain of "proprietary information" when asked about design or testing. I have seen instances where that means they don't have a clue.
....


  1. The bottom line for the man on the street for aftermarket dampers
    • Choosing the best damper for the application.
      • If you have any engine that can and will be run for long periods of time as street transportation, you can run the OEM damper with pretty good confidence that it will do as good as, or better than, an unknown aftermarket. If you want something that is simply better looking and perhaps more resistant to having the ring come loose, use an aftermarket designed as an OEM replacement that has more "bling" or some ring retention feature incorporated. How well done these dampers are for function depends on how well they have been engineered or tested.
    • If you are going to actually race, the choice probably divides into 3 classes.
      • Short life engines. Drag racers are typical short timers that get torn down and rebuilt so often that the question of durability from torsion problems may not be a consideration. If you have the facilities to do dyno testing, use the damper that gives the best power and has SFI approval.
      • Durability engines. If you are running an engine that you want to last awhile, (circle track, road racing, marine) then it is worth asking around and seeing what works for people building those engines or having a proper torsion test done to see what damper really does the job. A torsion test can be done on an engine dyno or a chassis dyno with the right equipment. (you can bet the NASCAR guys don't just guess about this)
      • Really unique engines. Doing dampers for old classic engines, or ones that don't get used much for racing can be a problem. It usually means selection via the dyno cut-and-try method or modeling the engine and designing from scratch.
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Last edited by Obioban; Wed, Feb-05-2020 at 09:55:05 PM.
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Old Wed, Feb-05-2020, 09:50:13 PM   #58
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Default Re: Ross performance s54 harmonic balancer

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Originally Posted by Obioban View Post
Excelletn read! But, this has not increased my desire for an aftermarket harmonic damper


Haha, well the article made me a little uneasy but Iím gonna give it a fair shake. While I was reading around I found this article on fluidampr vs ATI for the s2000 application. Itís got a bit of info on tools to take measurements between dampers so maybe I can get enough data points to quantify a difference.

https://urgedesigns.com/?page_id=175
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Old Wed, Feb-05-2020, 10:44:29 PM   #59
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Default Re: Ross performance s54 harmonic balancer

Looks like they're gone from the site.

Shame.
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Old Sat, Feb-15-2020, 06:16:04 AM   #60
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Default Re: Ross performance s54 harmonic balancer

This guy on Instagram is using one for a full engine out rebuild. Just a single data point but they are out in the wild.


https://instagram.com/tamed_m3?igshid=10zgzxnm1t6d3
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Discussing Ross performance s54 harmonic balancer in the E46 M3 (2001-2006) Forum - Engine: S54 - Max Hp: 333 hp at 7,900 rpm / 262 lb/ft at 4,900 rpm
Total Produced: 45,000+ - Years Produced: 2001 to 2006. at BMW M3 Forum.com (E30 M3 | E36 M3 | E46 M3 | E92 M3 | F80/X)