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E46 M3 (2001-2006) Engine: S54 - Max Hp: 333 hp at 7,900 rpm / 262 lb/ft at 4,900 rpm
Total Produced: 45,000+ - Years Produced: 2001 to 2006.


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Old Wed, May-21-2014, 07:08:02 AM   #11
icecream
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Default Re: Noise for few seconds at first startup

My guess is vanos related, possibly bad seals letting the system lose pressure/not build quick enough (that's why I would guess that it won't happen within an hour or so, the system still has oil in it). This noise is not exclusive to the S54. My 540 and my friends x5 4.4 made an identical noise at startup. My M3 does it too and I am curious if it goes away when I do the seals. Not really worried about it tbh. My 540 did it the entire time I owned it, never had a vanos issue.
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Old Wed, May-21-2014, 01:04:44 PM   #12
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Default Re: Noise for few seconds at first startup

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Originally Posted by icecream View Post
My guess is vanos related, possibly bad seals letting the system lose pressure/not build quick enough (that's why I would guess that it won't happen within an hour or so, the system still has oil in it). This noise is not exclusive to the S54. My 540 and my friends x5 4.4 made an identical noise at startup. My M3 does it too and I am curious if it goes away when I do the seals. Not really worried about it tbh. My 540 did it the entire time I owned it, never had a vanos issue.
Vanos is brand new, definitely not the seals in the vanos unit.
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Old Wed, May-21-2014, 02:33:16 PM   #13
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Default Noise for few seconds at first startup

That start up rattle is damn near non existent when I run liquimoly oil.

U don't mention the anti rattle kit. So I'm thinking the new seals and stuff are keeping that oil and vacuum pressure in the vanos very high. So the rattle is probably more prevalent at startup now since the anti rattle kit wasn't done also. Just my theory. :dunno:
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Old Wed, May-21-2014, 02:49:47 PM   #14
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Default Re: Noise for few seconds at first startup

The symphony of mechanical noises that every M3 makes?
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Old Wed, May-21-2014, 02:53:00 PM   #15
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Default Re: Noise for few seconds at first startup

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Originally Posted by snikwad View Post
That start up rattle is damn near non existent when I run liquimoly oil.

U don't mention the anti rattle kit. So I'm thinking the new seals and stuff are keeping that oil and vacuum pressure in the vanos very high. So the rattle is probably more prevalent at startup now since the anti rattle kit wasn't done also. Just my theory. :dunno:

I DID perform all anti-rattel modifications as well. The engine makes no abnormal noises otherwise, it runs quieter than ever, except for those first few seconds.

I have a theory I am going to check out today, I will let you know what I find...
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Old Wed, May-21-2014, 03:49:00 PM   #16
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Default Re: Noise for few seconds at first startup

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Vanos is brand new, definitely not the seals in the vanos unit.
Well then. Could still just be noise as the system builds pressure. Let us know what you find.
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Old Wed, May-21-2014, 07:50:39 PM   #17
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Default Re: Noise for few seconds at first startup

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Well then. Could still just be noise as the system builds pressure. Let us know what you find.
I went out and wanted to see if potentially the oil filter housing was draining down and the car had to refill that before the pressure would build enough.

I lifted the filter cover and it was 100% full of oil. Started it up and it definitely made the noise.

I then drained the oil from the housing by lifting the center bolt.

I wanted to start the car with the housing empty to see if that would cause the noise even though I had just started it minutes before.

It did not happen even though the housing was empty of oil.
Back to square one... Any ideas?

Waterpump bearings? Could that happen for only the first start after sitting?
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Old Wed, May-21-2014, 10:00:13 PM   #18
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Default Re: Noise for few seconds at first startup

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Originally Posted by moshjack View Post
I went out and wanted to see if potentially the oil filter housing was draining down and the car had to refill that before the pressure would build enough.

I lifted the filter cover and it was 100% full of oil. Started it up and it definitely made the noise.

I then drained the oil from the housing by lifting the center bolt.

I wanted to start the car with the housing empty to see if that would cause the noise even though I had just started it minutes before.

It did not happen even though the housing was empty of oil.
Back to square one... Any ideas?

Waterpump bearings? Could that happen for only the first start after sitting?
That was actually a really good idea and makes the idea of oil pressure building as the issue less plausible.
How is your chain tensioner and guides?
Like I said too, two other BMW's I was very familiar with and with entirely different configurations from the s54 also made the same noise. So, I think if we find a common part/system between the two, then we will solve the problem.
The only things in common really are vanos (though the M62 is single vanos) and that they both have timing chains. Since your vanos is entirely new, I would start with chains.
(also, the 540 was a six speed and the X5 an auto so that eliminates anything to do with flywheel noise)
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Old Thu, May-22-2014, 12:39:22 AM   #19
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Default Re: Noise for few seconds at first startup

Quote:
Originally Posted by moshjack View Post
I went out and wanted to see if potentially the oil filter housing was draining down and the car had to refill that before the pressure would build enough.

I lifted the filter cover and it was 100% full of oil. Started it up and it definitely made the noise.

I then drained the oil from the housing by lifting the center bolt.

I wanted to start the car with the housing empty to see if that would cause the noise even though I had just started it minutes before.

It did not happen even though the housing was empty of oil.
Back to square one... Any ideas?

Waterpump bearings? Could that happen for only the first start after sitting?
Not the water pump . I have the same noise and my water pump is new
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Old Fri, May-23-2014, 02:56:14 PM   #20
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Default Re: Noise for few seconds at first startup

Just following up on an earlier question. Everyone knows there are lots of moving parts in the cylinder head of S54 engines, all of which need oil to them. To some extent, after sitting idle for any period of time, the oil will drain away from the head and its parts, likely resulting in a clattering sound when the engine is restarted. My engine has about 76K miles, all of the VANOS related stuff just replaced, valve clearances within spec, and all of the other usual suspects ( as far as I know ) are in top working order. Even so, on cold startup, I'll hear that short burst of clattering that sounds like it's coming from the cylinder head, and it goes away completely after 2 - 3 seconds. My question continues to involve that CPV on the side of the block, and I'm trying to learn the exact function of that valve. I've found two different names for the valve, which in itself is a bit curious: seems to be known as both a constant pressure valve and a pressure relief valve. My real question is this: does anyone really know the function of that valve?
Thanks for reading a long post for a short question, and any help is appreciated!
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Discussing Noise for few seconds at first startup in the E46 M3 (2001-2006) Forum - Engine: S54 - Max Hp: 333 hp at 7,900 rpm / 262 lb/ft at 4,900 rpm
Total Produced: 45,000+ - Years Produced: 2001 to 2006. at BMW M3 Forum.com (E30 M3 | E36 M3 | E46 M3 | E92 M3 | F80/X)