BMW M3 Forum
BMW M3 Forum BMW M3 Gallery BMW M3 Reviews BMW M3 Social Groups BMW M3 Chat M3Forum Sponsors >>
Loading


Mobile M3forum
Go Back   BMW M3 Forum.com (E30 M3 | E36 M3 | E46 M3 | E92 M3 | F80/X) > BMW M3 Discussions > E46 M3 (2001-2006)
Tire Rack Buy Winter Tires Now!
Not a member? Register Now!
Register Gallery All Albums Garage Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Calendar FAQ

E46 M3 (2001-2006) Engine: S54 - Max Hp: 333 hp at 7,900 rpm / 262 lb/ft at 4,900 rpm
Total Produced: 45,000+ - Years Produced: 2001 to 2006.


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old Sun, May-06-2018, 04:51:23 PM   #1
rovert604
Registered User
 
rovert604's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Age: 39
Posts: 677
Reputation: 0 rovert604 is on a distinguished road
Location: Vancouver, BC

Canada




Default SMG * 0 bar * Help me find a correlation

Hey guys,

I've owned this car for 3 years so far and it's been another great experience to own. The only compromise I had to make when looking for a mint/clean/local car was the transmission, which I have read up on and it seems like there is so much great information and owners who are very experienced with this. I've been doing A LOT of searching, reading, chatting with owners, techs and I believe I might have come to a conclusion but I feel opening my experience to a mass of owners could help just a little bit more. I'm going to try to make this as efficient, clear and fast as I can so here goes.

4/21/2018 - 99,700 miles
- Just came of highway.
- Engine running.
- Nominal coolant/oil temps.
- Outside Temp approx 60F.
- Automatically dropped into N, amber SMG cog warning.

- Turned off engine, couldn't restart engine (no R/N/1 indication) until 2 mins after.
- After engine start: cog off, no strange issue, CEL on.

- Code check using BMW Scanner/PA Soft/INPA 1.5 hrs later then erase codes: 56 - Switching-on time of hydraulic unit / 53 - Lower level pressure reached HE.

- Used INPA to check hydraulic pressure: maxed at 70 bar and fell to around 53 bar in a few minutes before charging back up to 70 bar taking 7-9 seconds.

- Used INPA to trigger manual pump test which maxed to 85 bar in a few seconds.

Video I took 5/2/2018:
Showing INPA hydraulic pressures as the pump just starts to prime to it turning off. Most importantly listen to the sound of the SMG motor:
https://cl.ly/rNv4

5/5/2018 - 100,081 miles
- Car parked after a short drive.
- Engine off.
- Barely warm coolant/warm oil temp.
- Outside Temp approx 60F.
- Upon key position 2, no R/N/1 indication, therefore no engine start, amber SMG cog illuminated (same 56 & 53 code in PA soft/BMW Scanner/INPA).
- Left key in position 2 and plugged in INPA to check hydraulic pressure which was at 0 bar.

- Tried to activate gears in INPA, nothing happened, accept for dash display showing that the transmission is stuck in 1st gear.
- Swapped salmon relay, still no change.
- Went out to eat
- Came back after 2-3 hours, hit unlock on key fob, heard SMG motor priming system.
- Jumped into car and it started with no problem, going into R or 1 or 2 while being able to move the car.
- Turned engine off in N just in case motor fully stops pumping.

Video of the full SMG pressure cycle
This test was done 4-5 hours later along with points of interest with time:
https://cl.ly/rOF3
Engine Temp: 31C / Gearbox Temp: 27C / Hydraulics Temp: 28C
0:35 - Pressure is low enough to activate SMG motor.
0:40 - Hydraulic pump cutoff at 66 bar.
4:53 - Hydraulic pressure falls and activates SMG motor at 48 bar.
6:08 - Activate/test hydraulic pump manually and it turned off at 85 bar.
7:38 - Engine start as pressure keeps falling at 59 bar.
11:08 - Hydraulic pressure falls and activates SMG motor at 48 bar.
11:20 - Hydraulic pump cutoff at 66 bar.

-------------------------

My observations:

Voltage from OBC was 12.1v-12.5v without the engine on. Engine on and alternator showed 14.1v from OBC. INPA reads lower for some reason. I think this shows that I do not have any voltage/battery issues.

Hydraulic pressure bleeds off slow taking about 4 minutes from 66 bar to 48 bar and 5 minutes to fall from 85 to 48 bar showing that the seals in the accumulator can hold pressure.

Changing the relay did nothing during 0 bar, so my original relay is not broken.

The sound of my pump vs my friend's SMG motor with no codes or issues is much weaker and lower frequency, although it can increase hydraulic pressure just as fast as my friend's SMG motor.

SMG Fluid is at max level and has never leaked. My engine oil temp hangs at around 85C as a daily driver (in the burbs mostly) and it's not track driven. Living in Vancouver, Canada with extremely minimal rush hour traffic driving leads to a more "cooler" life for the pump. Belts don't have cracks and radiator/coolers are free from debris. Coolant rarely hits the 12 o'clock mark unless it's an 80-90F day and I'm spirited. All gears shift great and have never slurred or banged in rougher than normal even at level 5. There has never been an involuntary skipped gear change.

That's it....I'm leaning towards the SMG motor but I'm not totally sure. Any other advice/troubleshooting methods would be greatly appreciated!
__________________
--Trevor in 604--
Vancouver, BC, Canada
Jump to top rovert604 is online now   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Register now and remove these ads
Old Sun, May-06-2018, 04:54:07 PM   #2
0-60Motorsports
Established 1998....
 
0-60Motorsports's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 14,566
In the garage:
Reputation: 0 0-60Motorsports is on a distinguished road
Location: Al Manama, Bahrain

Bahrain




Default Re: SMG * 0 bar * Help me find a correlation

Maybe itís time to change the accumulator and pump
Motor from burkhart and relocate it to the bin passenger area.
__________________
EURO 04 M3 Mods: GC DA's / Eibach Sways / PF RTABs / RE RCAs / INTRAVEE II / ///MFEST Badges / M5 SMG Knob / VCSL: Bumper + Race Lip, CF Trunk, CF Diffusor / DIETZ TV in Motion / SuperSprint: Stepped Headers, Cat Deletes, Res X-pipe, Sport Muffler / Z8 Starter Button / Lamin-X / STM Paddles / OEM CSL: Steering, Interior, Intake, CF Roof / Terra MSS54HP CSL Clone + TTFS Tune / BBS CH's, LIGHTWERKZ / ST40's / DINAN RSB / RE Race Brace / BW Oil Cooler / 3.91 gears / Radium OCC
Jump to top 0-60Motorsports is online now   Reply With Quote
Old Sun, May-06-2018, 05:03:29 PM   #3
WOLFN8TR
/// MONEY \\\
 
WOLFN8TR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 1,866
In the garage:
Reputation: 0 WOLFN8TR is on a distinguished road
Location: Las Vegas

United States




Default Re: SMG * 0 bar * Help me find a correlation

Now this is how you start a thread! Nice explanation with pics, videos and INPA snap shots!

Trevor I'm leaning towards the pump motor being the problem. Look at the Burkhart motor replacement if this turns out to be the issue.


SMG Pump Motor Replacement On Car - DIY

SMG 2 Hydraulic Pump Repair Kit

SMG Relocation to Engine Bay Side Comparment

"56 switching on time of hydraulic unit" may not be all that it seems

One-stop shop for NEW E46 M3 SMG pump motors, accumulators, oils, etc!!

DIY: The "Standup" SMG Resistor Mod

DIY: Resistor Mod To Cure Summertime SMG Blues
__________________
Build Thread - S54 Vanos Thread

BAVSOUND Stage 1 - UltraGauge - Valentine One - Orion V4's - ARC-8's
TTFS Engine/SMG Tune - SGT Headers/Sect 1/SCZA - Evolve Eventuri
VIS XTS CF Hood - CF Lip/Console/Diffuser - OE CSL Trunk - Turner Spacers 15/12 - BWS 500S 9k/11k

Last edited by WOLFN8TR; Sun, May-06-2018 at 05:19:16 PM.
Jump to top WOLFN8TR is online now   Reply With Quote
Old Sun, May-06-2018, 09:10:30 PM   #4
maw1124
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 100
In the garage:
Reputation: 0 maw1124 is on a distinguished road

United States




Default Re: SMG * 0 bar * Help me find a correlation

You might swap the fluid before throwing another pump at it. Pentosin is not a lifetime fluid, no matter how it’s billed. Can’t hurt, and if you get another pump you’ll want fresh fluid anyway. And as an extra bonus, resetting the SMG adaptations is part of the procedure for swapping the fluid.

GL

maw

PS I'm not a mechanic. But as a casual owner of this car, I found the attached useful. Fluid circulation is all handled by valves located in the accumulator. I know people quickly point to pump failures. But knowing BMW M, that's the last thing I'd suspect (hardware failure), and when that happens I think the pump has been overworked by bad fluid over time. After the fluid, I'd suspect the pressure sensors. I can't prove any of this because I've never had SMG problems (in SoFL). But also because I'm in SoFL, I know heat + humidity in "closed" fluid handling systems (brake, steering, SMG, Mercedes ABC) is ALWAYS a problem to watch closely, because the fluid goes off more quickly.


https://www.scribd.com/document/232302466/BMW-M3-SMG (Pages 10-15 are particularly helpful)

Last edited by maw1124; Mon, May-07-2018 at 03:23:02 PM. Reason: PS
Jump to top maw1124 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Sun, May-06-2018, 10:02:35 PM   #5
rovert604
Registered User
 
rovert604's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Age: 39
Posts: 677
Reputation: 0 rovert604 is on a distinguished road
Location: Vancouver, BC

Canada




Default Re: SMG * 0 bar * Help me find a correlation

So I opened the ECU box again and undid all the connections and put them back into place just in case there was a loose connection or any unsuspecting corrosion. Everything is good on that part.

I have replaced some CHF11S fluid in the past. And I donít really see any return line for circulation mainly at the top where the reservoir is so I donít see it even making it into the pump if you just replace the reservoir fluid.

I also wanted to see whatís inside a relay so I took apart my old relay but it shows no signs of burning or wear but i also donít know what to look for in a worn relay since it could be all just resistance related or thinning metal.






__________________
--Trevor in 604--
Vancouver, BC, Canada
Jump to top rovert604 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old Sun, May-06-2018, 11:06:36 PM   #6
andrewrivera141
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 186
Reputation: 0 andrewrivera141 is on a distinguished road

United States




Default Re: SMG * 0 bar * Help me find a correlation

Great right up. I believe it's the motor too. I would of said the pump itself as the pump can lose pressure but because your motor sounds like the commutator and brushes are filled with junk and debree I would say change that. I'm doing the burkhart soon too. Comes with the temperature and fluid and takes away the "summer time blues" for the smg. If you do it yourself, just do a overhaul on the pump if you can with the new burkhart motor. Best of luck. Let us know how you make out.

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk
Jump to top andrewrivera141 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Mon, May-07-2018, 04:20:41 AM   #7
rovert604
Registered User
 
rovert604's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Age: 39
Posts: 677
Reputation: 0 rovert604 is on a distinguished road
Location: Vancouver, BC

Canada




Default Re: SMG * 0 bar * Help me find a correlation

I have seen on youtube this:


It appears to be a rebuilding of the OEM motor as well as replacing parts of it that are worn. Does anyone know what the average cost for this is? If this is really really economical then just paying the price to relocate the whole pump to the bread bin would seem a good way since the OEM pump lasts about 100K miles beside the engine and hopefully longer once it's relocated. Of course this is an unknown as Burkhart's motor is an unknown as well.

This has been a really good education thus far. All of this SMG education is sticking much better when it applies to you rather than just reading posts that don't mean as much to you since it's not your car. LOL.
__________________
--Trevor in 604--
Vancouver, BC, Canada
Jump to top rovert604 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old Mon, May-07-2018, 02:41:54 PM   #8
BubbaTree
BubbaTree
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 167
Reputation: 0 BubbaTree is on a distinguished road
Location: Surprise

United States




Default Re: SMG * 0 bar * Help me find a correlation

Here's another case of failing SMG symptoms, and a common suggestion that the hydraulic unit be relocated to some location other than the original. As an SMG guy, I'm wondering if anyone can post their observable results gained by relocating their SMG accumulator, etc. from stock to the "drug bin"? Do you see any improvement in the problem you originally had, and how can you tell that the improvement is due to a cooler environment, as opposed to some other change, such as new fluid, bleeding the system, etc.
I'm curious, as I live in the Phoenix desert, and get some funky SMG behaviors when the temperature gets up to 105-115 or so!! With some known improvement, I may be looking at this mod.
Thanks.
Jump to top BubbaTree is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Mon, May-07-2018, 03:22:25 PM   #9
0-60Motorsports
Established 1998....
 
0-60Motorsports's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 14,566
In the garage:
Reputation: 0 0-60Motorsports is on a distinguished road
Location: Al Manama, Bahrain

Bahrain




Default Re: SMG * 0 bar * Help me find a correlation

Quote:
Originally Posted by BubbaTree View Post
Here's another case of failing SMG symptoms, and a common suggestion that the hydraulic unit be relocated to some location other than the original. As an SMG guy, I'm wondering if anyone can post their observable results gained by relocating their SMG accumulator, etc. from stock to the "drug bin"? Do you see any improvement in the problem you originally had, and how can you tell that the improvement is due to a cooler environment, as opposed to some other change, such as new fluid, bleeding the system, etc.

I'm curious, as I live in the Phoenix desert, and get some funky SMG behaviors when the temperature gets up to 105-115 or so!! With some known improvement, I may be looking at this mod.

Thanks.


Well I can tell you from todayís drive that the temps here reached 47.5c and my smg pump worked flawlessly. No cog light. Last year in the same situation it would throw the cog light when temps rose above 40c. This in my POV is still not a proper test. Proper results will come when temps hit 50c + here in June, July and August. Iíll report back then but so far so good.
__________________
EURO 04 M3 Mods: GC DA's / Eibach Sways / PF RTABs / RE RCAs / INTRAVEE II / ///MFEST Badges / M5 SMG Knob / VCSL: Bumper + Race Lip, CF Trunk, CF Diffusor / DIETZ TV in Motion / SuperSprint: Stepped Headers, Cat Deletes, Res X-pipe, Sport Muffler / Z8 Starter Button / Lamin-X / STM Paddles / OEM CSL: Steering, Interior, Intake, CF Roof / Terra MSS54HP CSL Clone + TTFS Tune / BBS CH's, LIGHTWERKZ / ST40's / DINAN RSB / RE Race Brace / BW Oil Cooler / 3.91 gears / Radium OCC
Jump to top 0-60Motorsports is online now   Reply With Quote
Old Mon, May-07-2018, 04:51:49 PM   #10
WOLFN8TR
/// MONEY \\\
 
WOLFN8TR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 1,866
In the garage:
Reputation: 0 WOLFN8TR is on a distinguished road
Location: Las Vegas

United States




Default Re: SMG * 0 bar * Help me find a correlation

I've daily driven my M3 for the last few years, survived the last two really hot summers out here in Las Vegas. We consistantly get temps from 100-120 from June thru September. So far not one single problem. When I bought the car I was really concerned about the SMG pump surviving these temps so I did a few things to possibly help keep the temps lower. I usually add new Petosin fluid every few months via the syphon and refill method. Open the hood when parked in the garage as well as these below.

- Ceramic coated catless headers
- VIS XTS vented hood
- Electric fan mod
__________________
Build Thread - S54 Vanos Thread

BAVSOUND Stage 1 - UltraGauge - Valentine One - Orion V4's - ARC-8's
TTFS Engine/SMG Tune - SGT Headers/Sect 1/SCZA - Evolve Eventuri
VIS XTS CF Hood - CF Lip/Console/Diffuser - OE CSL Trunk - Turner Spacers 15/12 - BWS 500S 9k/11k
Jump to top WOLFN8TR is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT. The time now is 08:32:40 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
M3Forum.com and M3forum.net is in no way sponsored, endorsed or affiliated by or with BMW NA / BMW AG or any of it's subsidiaries or vendors.
BMW and M3 (E90 M3 | E92 M3 | E93 M3 | E46 M3 | E36 M3 | E30 M3) are registered trademarks of BMW AG.
M3Forum Terms of Service
Copyright ©1999-2017 M3Forum.com
Discussing SMG * 0 bar * Help me find a correlation in the E46 M3 (2001-2006) Forum - Engine: S54 - Max Hp: 333 hp at 7,900 rpm / 262 lb/ft at 4,900 rpm
Total Produced: 45,000+ - Years Produced: 2001 to 2006. at BMW M3 Forum.com (E30 M3 | E36 M3 | E46 M3 | E92 M3 | F80/X)