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E46 M3 (2001-2006) Engine: S54 - Max Hp: 333 hp at 7,900 rpm / 262 lb/ft at 4,900 rpm
Total Produced: 45,000+ - Years Produced: 2001 to 2006.


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Old Wed, Oct-10-2018, 05:28:28 PM   #41
Paulo M
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Default Re: BMW upset with E46 M3 enthusiasts

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Originally Posted by icecream View Post
Porsche seems to be doing okay finding buyers for their cars sooo I dont really see that as a valid argument.
That dipsh*ts quote about going fast relaxed says it all.
I’m not understanding what you’re trying to imply here. I was saying, if manual was so much of a drivers oriented feature, why is pdk still king with the new gt3 cars? Unless gt3 customers are posers who buy these cars for cool factor.
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Old Wed, Oct-10-2018, 05:32:29 PM   #42
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Default Re: BMW upset with E46 M3 enthusiasts

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Originally Posted by Paulo M View Post
I’m not understanding what you’re trying to imply here. I was saying, if manual was so much of a drivers oriented feature, why is pdk still king with the new gt3 cars? Unless gt3 customers are posers who buy these cars for cool factor.
The current GT3 can be had in manual... And it's glorious.

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Old Wed, Oct-10-2018, 05:33:24 PM   #43
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Default Re: BMW upset with E46 M3 enthusiasts

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Originally Posted by Obioban View Post
The current GT3 can be had in manual... And it's glorious.

Manuals Matter: Porsche 911 GT3 - Carfection (4K) - YouTube
Porsche tried to kill it too...
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Old Wed, Oct-10-2018, 05:34:15 PM   #44
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Default Re: BMW upset with E46 M3 enthusiasts

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Porsche tried to kill it too...
Tried, and then realized their mistake

... now if they're just do the same with turbos in the non GT3/4 cars...
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Old Wed, Oct-10-2018, 05:35:03 PM   #45
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Default Re: BMW upset with E46 M3 enthusiasts

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Originally Posted by Obioban View Post
The current GT3 can be had in manual... And it's glorious.

Manuals Matter: Porsche 911 GT3 - Carfection (4K) - YouTube
I understand that, i was saying pdk is still their top seller

I’d also argue that a manual on a gt3 makes more sense than in a 3,450lb sedan based coupe.
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Old Wed, Oct-10-2018, 05:55:52 PM   #46
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Default Re: BMW upset with E46 M3 enthusiasts

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I understand that, i was saying pdk is still their top seller

I’d also argue that a manual on a gt3 makes more sense than in a 3,450lb sedan based coupe.
I got equal levels of increased satisfaction from the manual trans in my silverado as I did in my 2350 lb CM race car

And it's only 3450 lbs if you have SMG. 3415 with 6mt
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Old Wed, Oct-10-2018, 06:03:13 PM   #47
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Default Re: BMW upset with E46 M3 enthusiasts

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I got equal levels of increased satisfaction from the manual trans in my silverado as I did in my 2350 lb CM race car

And it's only 3450 lbs if you have SMG. 3415 with 6mt
Manual in a truck makes sense tho, for towing and off roading. Manual on a 3,100lb gt3 sports car does too.

Manual on a 3,415lb 3 series isnít really a must. If the other option was a dct rather than the dated smg then Iíd argue the dct compliments the 3series better as a multi purpose car.
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Old Wed, Oct-10-2018, 06:08:11 PM   #48
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Default Re: BMW upset with E46 M3 enthusiasts

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Manual in a truck makes sense tho, for towing and off roading. Manual on a 3,100lb gt3 sports car does too.

Manual on a 3,415lb 3 series isn’t really a must. If the other option was a dct rather than the dated smg then I’d argue the dct compliments the 3series better as a multi purpose car.
Manual lowers the towing capacity, so I'd argue not so much. And, not many people off roading full size pickups.

Manual is a must for me-- I wouldn't buy the car if it wasn't offered without it. I enjoyed manual in my 2350 lb race car, I enjoy it in my 3071 lb m3 coupe, I enjoy it in my 3450 lb 5 series, I enjoy it in my 3500 lb m3 wagon, I enjoyed it in my 3700 lb e91 wagon, I enjoy it in my almost 4000 lb M5, and I enjoyed it in my (heavy) silverado. I've debated swapping my suburban to manual... but will likely replace it with a manual toyota SUV instead.

I find every driving experience, at any size/weight class, more enjoyable with a manual.
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Old Wed, Oct-10-2018, 06:14:36 PM   #49
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Default Re: BMW upset with E46 M3 enthusiasts

If it has a internal combustion engine, give me a manual; otherwise, it might as well be all electric.
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Old Wed, Oct-10-2018, 06:21:11 PM   #50
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Default Re: BMW upset with E46 M3 enthusiasts

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Originally Posted by Kwakjoe View Post
I agree with you for the most part, but I'd have to add the M3, although a sedan, is quite a capable car. It surprised me a lot on track when I drove the M3/4 back to back.
I'm sure it is a pretty capable car, but the size kills it for me. It stops being a sports car when it gets too big.

That is my biggest complaint, and not just with BMW. Why does every generation have to get larger? Read the G20 launch review, it is (again) ~3" longer, ~1" wider and taller. It is a friggn 7 series from a few generations ago. Why not be bold and go against the grain? Be a leader, be the first to say, we are going to make our SPORTS SEDAN smaller again, because they have grown too large.

Kudos to Mazda for making the new Miata like so. (note that I am comparing these two cars of course)


Quote:
Originally Posted by M spec View Post
The f8x M3/4 is vastly superior to a E46/M. Also to note, the E46 while exciting to drive, is far from the most "feeling" car that BMW made or is out there in general.

Why this guy is listening to small camp of enthusiasts who cant drive quicker than the E46 permits is beyond me. The chassis feel and high baseline speed that the F80 has is incredible to drive and push to the limits of your inner "true driver" whether its DCT (better in every way) or manual.

That said, I enjoy the E46 as an auto and BMW enthusiast, as the only factor holding me back from a F80 is the deprecation they still have. In 2-3 years they'll be fantastic buys, just like the E92's are currently.

You have valid points, but as stated above, the large size is a problem at some point, which is why in a direct comparison, everyone says the M2 feels nimbler, despite being virtually the same weight.

FWIW, that depreciation was a large factor why I got in to a e46 M3 again 3 years ago. I have come to the realization that the cheapest, and smartest way to go, is to buy M3's 2 generations down. Get a low mileage one for 1/2 the cost, and drive them a few years for free.

E90 is the way to go for the next 3 years, then F80.
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Discussing BMW upset with E46 M3 enthusiasts in the E46 M3 (2001-2006) Forum - Engine: S54 - Max Hp: 333 hp at 7,900 rpm / 262 lb/ft at 4,900 rpm
Total Produced: 45,000+ - Years Produced: 2001 to 2006. at BMW M3 Forum.com (E30 M3 | E36 M3 | E46 M3 | E92 M3 | F80/X)