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Old Wed, Sep-19-2018, 12:24:35 PM   #31
FANTASTICVOYAGE
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Default Re: Feeler: Group Buy Gosling Racing & Independent Designs Front and Rear Brace

I never noticed the slots. Hopefully they can provide a non slotted option.
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Old Wed, Sep-19-2018, 08:04:17 PM   #32
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Default Re: Feeler: Group Buy Gosling Racing & Independent Designs Front and Rear Brace

I just received email from PETE at PSDesigns.

Quote:
ďFirstly, thank you for the interest in our products and to WALKD_U for reaching out to us for this, PSDesigns and GRID have worked hard to come up with some new product offerings for a platform that many manufacturers have now walked away from.

Regards the rear brace, we all know the issues surrounding the RACP (Rear Axle Carrier Panel) failures and the various solutions companies (including my own) offer/employ.

Both GRID and PSDesigns are strong advocates for chassis reinforcement plates, however during more spirited driving, chassis plates, although repairing and reinforcing the contact surfaces for the diff carrier on the RCAP and helping to dissipate loading they do not increase chassis stiffness. The rear brace has been designed to help dissipate/reduce the forces loaded in to the panel, moving them away from the initial contact surface to the brace and strut towers. The majority of load from the diff, into the vehicle is in the vertical plane in a torsional motion as the diff tries to twist the panel, which is why we have designed the brace to primarily take that load away from the factory designed weak point.

A secondary feature of the brace is to add some additional chassis stiffness to the rear of the vehicle in a similar way to a conventional rear strut brace, again helping reduce chassis twis. It is important to realise that there should be a some degree of flexibility in a chassis/vehicle. While we would could have manufactured this to be a solid 1 piece item we believe this would be too extreme, the slots in the horizontal plane allow ease of fitting and for some adjustment, they additionally provide a degree of flexibility between different vehicle geometry and suspension setups, at the same time reinforcing the rear shock mounting locations.

We have sold a large number of these braces to customers around the UK and Europe, due to shipping constraints the current number sold into the US and Canada is smaller, however we have worked hard to overcome the issues surrounding this. We havenít received any negative feedback, with a large number reporting a huge difference in chassis rigidity, with minimum reduction in ride quality. We have customers with these braces fitted on dedicated track cars, weekend toys and some daily drivers, an increasing number of our customer base for these are Nurburgring regulars clocking up large track mileage on a regular basis. When mated with one of our rear cages not only do they look impressive but chassis rigidity and strength is greatly increased. It had been a while since Iíve driven a standard E46 M3, however when the chance arose at a recent track day I was reminded how soft these cars are in standard form, when compared to a mildly modified version (suspension, poly bushes, arbís etc) factor in one of our rear braces and the chassis dynamics are fantastic.

I will ask one of my track guys to provide me with a statement regards his feelings on these if that would help Anthony?

Front braces.

Having snapped several OE BMW chassis braces which utilise cast turret mounting plates, we wanted to offer an alternative, The thread has already covered the key features of our front brace, so I wonít go over them again.

Regards the questions/points raised on the slotted top plates, this is to accommodate various aftermarket suspension setups and allow the brace to be fitted to cars running oe top mounts or aftermarket mounts. Once the top plates have been installed there is no movement in them, unless the suspension bolts are removed! They add additional strength to the suspension turrets, a known factory weak point, especially on cars running stiffer suspension setups.

The high tensile bolts used to connect the centre bar to the top mounts are very strong and once torqued withstand the stress imparted on them even under the most extreme situations. However as I said above, a degree of chassis movement is not a bad thing, this is why the brace doesnít mount to the bulk head! Additionally whilst Iím sure some would prefer a solid 1 piece brace, a number of which are already available on the market, Iím also sure that many donít want the increased labour burden on having to entirely remove the brace and then perform a geometry check as a consequence in order to service/repair the vehicle. We could offer a more extreme 1 piece design in theory if thatís what people want! I for one certainly wouldnít want that, which is why we didnít design the brace like that!Ē

If I have missed anything please let me know, and sorry for the delay in getting this to you, I have had a very busy week so far, I didnít get home last night until 23:45, by which time I was too tired to write this, please let me know if you have any specific questions for me.


All the best Anthony.
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Old Wed, Sep-19-2018, 11:14:24 PM   #33
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Default Re: Feeler: Group Buy Gosling Racing & Independent Designs Front and Rear Brace

Could they make a version where the bar was adjustable instead of the slots?

1. WALKD_U - 1 Front and Rear Brace
2. lore2486 - 1 Rear Brace
3. FANTASTICVOYAGE - 1 Rear Brace
4. tr4ck_m3 - 1 Rear Brace
5.
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.
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Old Thu, Sep-20-2018, 02:19:33 AM   #34
WALKD_U
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Default Re: Feeler: Group Buy Gosling Racing & Independent Designs Front and Rear Brace

Quote:
Originally Posted by tr4ck_m3 View Post
Could they make a version where the bar was adjustable instead of the slots?

1. WALKD_U - 1 Front and Rear Brace
2. lore2486 - 1 Rear Brace
3. FANTASTICVOYAGE - 1 Rear Brace
4. tr4ck_m3 - 1 Rear Brace
5.
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.
I will inquire and how much will it be for that as well.

So, here's the list:

1. WALKD_U - 1 Front and Rear Brace
2. lore2486 - 1 Rear Brace
3. FANTASTICVOYAGE - 1 Rear Brace
4. tr4ck_m3 - 1 Rear Brace
5. MP (Facebook) - 1 Rear Brace
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.
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1996 BLU/BLK M3
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235whp/225wtq SAE Corrected

1988 SETA 325I
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Old Thu, Sep-20-2018, 01:16:05 PM   #35
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Default Re: Feeler: Group Buy Gosling Racing & Independent Designs Front and Rear Brace

Quote:
Originally Posted by WALKD_U View Post
I just received email from PETE at PSDesigns.
There's a bunch of misinformation in there, but most glaring...

Quote:
We havenít received any negative feedback, with a large number reporting a huge difference in chassis rigidity, with minimum reduction in ride quality.
A stiffer chassis does not reduce ride quality. In fact, a stiffer chassis enables the car to be tuned for better ride quality, for a given level of grip/handling.

Quote:
It is important to realise that there should be a some degree of flexibility in a chassis/vehicle.
A) there never won't be-- it's impossible to make in infinitely stiff chassis

B) the less there is, the better

C) any design that decreases it less is worse/less effective than one that decreases it more
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Old Thu, Sep-20-2018, 07:16:01 PM   #36
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Default Re: Feeler: Group Buy Gosling Racing & Independent Designs Front and Rear Brace

The X brace is meant as a kind of chassis cage for the rear subframe according the Mason Engineering. So there should be significant reduction of flex as per design of the X Brace. (Flexing is what causes the subframe cracks , universally accepted throughout the industry)

Perhaps, Gosling's designer could respond instead of PSDesigns -the distributor. Like Obioban says , there seems to be confusion as to what the brace is actually designed to do on PSDesign's part.

I know Gosling makes good stuff, just want to hear it from him directly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Obioban View Post
There's a bunch of misinformation in there, but most glaring...



A stiffer chassis does not reduce ride quality. In fact, a stiffer chassis enables the car to be tuned for better ride quality, for a given level of grip/handling.



A) there never won't be-- it's impossible to make in infinitely stiff chassis

B) the less there is, the better

C) any design that decreases it less is worse/less effective than one that decreases it more
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Last edited by tr4ck_m3; Thu, Sep-20-2018 at 07:19:47 PM.
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Old Sun, Sep-23-2018, 03:27:50 PM   #37
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Default Re: Feeler: Group Buy Gosling Racing & Independent Designs Front and Rear Brace

1. WALKD_U - 1 Front and Rear Brace
2. lore2486 - 1 Rear Brace
3. FANTASTICVOYAGE - 1 Rear Brace
4. tr4ck_m3 - 1 Rear Brace
5. MP (Facebook) - 1 Rear Brace
6. m3_pilot - Rear Brace
7.
8.
9.
10.
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Old Sun, Sep-23-2018, 09:31:30 PM   #38
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Default Re: Feeler: Group Buy Gosling Racing & Independent Designs Front and Rear Brace

1. WALKD_U - 1 Front and Rear Brace
2. lore2486 - 1 Rear Brace
3. FANTASTICVOYAGE - 1 Rear Brace
4. tr4ck_m3 - 1 Rear Brace
5. MP (Facebook) - 1 Rear Brace
6. m3_pilot - Rear Brace
7. DJ Syxx - Front Brace
8.
9.
10.
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Old Tue, Sep-25-2018, 06:21:55 PM   #39
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Default Re: Feeler: Group Buy Gosling Racing & Independent Designs Front and Rear Brace

is there any options for the front of the rear subframe to tie into the rear brace with this kit? (rear kit)

(like vince's solution with the gusset tubes)
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Old Tue, Sep-25-2018, 06:43:25 PM   #40
WALKD_U
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Default Re: Feeler: Group Buy Gosling Racing & Independent Designs Front and Rear Brace

Quote:
Originally Posted by e46thebest View Post
is there any options for the front of the rear subframe to tie into the rear brace with this kit? (rear kit)

(like vince's solution with the gusset tubes)
I am not sure you would have a back seat if this was done. That will be more of a custom kit then what we offer in this GB. I can inquire for you if you would like?

Anthony
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Discussing Feeler: Group Buy Gosling Racing & Independent Designs Front and Rear Brace in the Parts for Sale/Wanted Forum - Post your Parts Wanted, and non commercial bmw related items for sale. We ask that companies selling goods become a Sponsor to advertise your goods. at BMW M3 Forum.com (E30 M3 | E36 M3 | E46 M3 | E92 M3 | F80/X)