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Old Sat, Sep-15-2018, 03:32:36 PM   #1
WALKD_U
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Default Feeler: Group Buy Gosling Racing & Independent Designs Front and Rear Brace

Preface: I am in the talks with PSDesigns to see if we can setup a GB for Front and Rear Brace for the E46 M3. PSDesigns is going to contact GRID and see what PSDesigns can offer us M3Forum members Looks like we’ll need atleast 10 participants. They wouldn’t need to order a front and rear brace but total of 10 participants to make it worth doing

What is a Front Strut Brace?
A “Front Strut Brace” or FSB is intended to reduce the flex between the front strut towers (suspension towers) during cornering. Reducing this flex ensures that the suspension remains in the orientation intended, allowing for the suspension to do its job properly.

Who can benefit from a strut bar?
A front strut brace can benefit all car drivers/cars, from road cars to weekend track cars and full race cars, there is a benefit to be gained from a properly engineered strut brace. We are sure that anyone can appreciate the ability for front suspension to remain constant at all times, other benefits include support of the factory strut towers from "mushrooming". This generally occurs if the vehicle hits large potholes, particularly prevalent on UK roads currently! The impact causes the suspension to compress completely, damaging the wheel . However, not only the wheel takes the hit, but the suspension and shock tower as well. Over time, if left unprotected, this can cause expensive structural damage.

What to look for in a strut tower brace?

Sufficient protection of the suspension towers to prevent "mushrooming"
Strong centre bar with adequate bracing and stiffening
Provide adequate under bonnet/hood clearance from both the engine and bonnet/hood.
Allow for suspension changes/adjustments
Made from the best materials available
Ease of fitment and future engine servicing

Features and Benefits

Lightweight tubular steel bars construction
100% TIG welded
High strength steel plate Tower Mounts
Powder coated for a durable finish.
The PSDesigns/GRID FSB is intentionally a 2 pice design (tower mounts and Brace bar) This allows for ease of installation, maximum adjustment and ease of servicing (no need to remove the bar to change the spark plugs!
The centre bar is a one piece welded construction which will resist bending and flexing.
The multiple bar configuration, with cross section support bars, resist twisting and bending of the front chassis. Although it does not bolt to the firewall/bulkhead, the bar's multiple tubes resist bending and twisting in multiple planes.
Open suspension tower design allows for easy access to adjustable camber plates and shock adjustments, whilst also accommodating many aftermarket suspension configurations.
Designed to offer adequate clearance over the engine components as well as under bonnet/hood clearance.
Suspension towers offer full 360° support, completely covering the tower area. This can prevent costly structural damage "mushrooming" from potholes, especially with lowered cars.
Removal of the strut brace takes only minutes with simple hand tools. Adjustments to suspension camber/caster plates can be made without removal of the bar.
The brace was designed specifically for the E46 M3 2001-2006, However it will also fit 6-cylinder E46 models from 2002 onwards. It is not designed for E46 vehicles from 1999-2001. Early model E46 M3s have these bumps, but with camber plates (longer studs), our Front Strut Brace can still be installed.

The price structure would be as follows:

1 Front Brace = $520
Total of 10 participants: £284 ($373 USD)

Shipping is £50 ($66 USD) for 1 brace or £70 ($92 USD) on a pair of braces.

Also worth noting that GB prices are for non-vat eligible purchases, so USA, Canada, Australia etc, not UK or Europe as PSDesign/GRID would have to charge them vat (tax).




E46 AXEL PANNEL BRACE KIT

General information

• Full tig welded design using stainless steel fasteners

• Made in Cds tube for durable strong product

• Full bolt in kit with no welding required

• All fixtures and fittings included in this kit

• Standard color supplied in gloss black

• Idea for full coil over conversions

• Suited to road and circuit cars alike

• This kit can be combine with the generation 3 gts cage for the ultimate set up

Kit contents

1x brace
2x turret mounts
1x top bar
2x tension rods
2x high tensile cnc machined axel bolts
1x m12x1.5 tap
1x extra long pilot drill bit
1x bolt pack containing all nuts bolts and washers

Please note GRID cages and braces are made to order, this means they carry a lead time of up to 4 weeks. We always endeavour to dispatch quicker than this however.

The price structure would be as follows:

1 Rear Brace = $700
Total of 10 participants: £383 ($504 USD)

Shipping is £50 ($66 USD) for 1 brace or £70 ($92 USD) on a pair of braces.

Also worth noting that GB prices are for non-vat eligible purchases, so USA, Canada, Australia etc, not UK or Europe as PSDesign/GRID would have to charge them vat (tax).







So, what do we think? Anyone interested? And, FWIW, if this happens, I'll be in for 1 Front and Rear Brace.

If interested, please list quantity you'd desire!
Quote:
So, here's the list:

1. WALKD_U - 1 Front and Rear Brace
2.
3.
4.
5.
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.
I just received email from PETE at PSDesigns.

Quote:
“Firstly, thank you for the interest in our products and to WALKD_U for reaching out to us for this, PSDesigns and GRID have worked hard to come up with some new product offerings for a platform that many manufacturers have now walked away from.

Regards the rear brace, we all know the issues surrounding the RACP (Rear Axle Carrier Panel) failures and the various solutions companies (including my own) offer/employ.

Both GRID and PSDesigns are strong advocates for chassis reinforcement plates, however during more spirited driving, chassis plates, although repairing and reinforcing the contact surfaces for the diff carrier on the RCAP and helping to dissipate loading they do not increase chassis stiffness. The rear brace has been designed to help dissipate/reduce the forces loaded in to the panel, moving them away from the initial contact surface to the brace and strut towers. The majority of load from the diff, into the vehicle is in the vertical plane in a torsional motion as the diff tries to twist the panel, which is why we have designed the brace to primarily take that load away from the factory designed weak point.

A secondary feature of the brace is to add some additional chassis stiffness to the rear of the vehicle in a similar way to a conventional rear strut brace, again helping reduce chassis twis. It is important to realise that there should be a some degree of flexibility in a chassis/vehicle. While we would could have manufactured this to be a solid 1 piece item we believe this would be too extreme, the slots in the horizontal plane allow ease of fitting and for some adjustment, they additionally provide a degree of flexibility between different vehicle geometry and suspension setups, at the same time reinforcing the rear shock mounting locations.

We have sold a large number of these braces to customers around the UK and Europe, due to shipping constraints the current number sold into the US and Canada is smaller, however we have worked hard to overcome the issues surrounding this. We haven’t received any negative feedback, with a large number reporting a huge difference in chassis rigidity, with minimum reduction in ride quality. We have customers with these braces fitted on dedicated track cars, weekend toys and some daily drivers, an increasing number of our customer base for these are Nurburgring regulars clocking up large track mileage on a regular basis. When mated with one of our rear cages not only do they look impressive but chassis rigidity and strength is greatly increased. It had been a while since I’ve driven a standard E46 M3, however when the chance arose at a recent track day I was reminded how soft these cars are in standard form, when compared to a mildly modified version (suspension, poly bushes, arb’s etc) factor in one of our rear braces and the chassis dynamics are fantastic.

I will ask one of my track guys to provide me with a statement regards his feelings on these if that would help Anthony?

Front braces.

Having snapped several OE BMW chassis braces which utilise cast turret mounting plates, we wanted to offer an alternative, The thread has already covered the key features of our front brace, so I won’t go over them again.

Regards the questions/points raised on the slotted top plates, this is to accommodate various aftermarket suspension setups and allow the brace to be fitted to cars running oe top mounts or aftermarket mounts. Once the top plates have been installed there is no movement in them, unless the suspension bolts are removed! They add additional strength to the suspension turrets, a known factory weak point, especially on cars running stiffer suspension setups.

The high tensile bolts used to connect the centre bar to the top mounts are very strong and once torqued withstand the stress imparted on them even under the most extreme situations. However as I said above, a degree of chassis movement is not a bad thing, this is why the brace doesn’t mount to the bulk head! Additionally whilst I’m sure some would prefer a solid 1 piece brace, a number of which are already available on the market, I’m also sure that many don’t want the increased labour burden on having to entirely remove the brace and then perform a geometry check as a consequence in order to service/repair the vehicle. We could offer a more extreme 1 piece design in theory if that’s what people want! I for one certainly wouldn’t want that, which is why we didn’t design the brace like that!”

If I have missed anything please let me know, and sorry for the delay in getting this to you, I have had a very busy week so far, I didn’t get home last night until 23:45, by which time I was too tired to write this, please let me know if you have any specific questions for me.


All the best Anthony.
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Last edited by WALKD_U; Wed, Oct-03-2018 at 03:03:34 AM.
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Old Sat, Sep-15-2018, 05:05:27 PM   #2
SQ13
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Default Re: Feeler: Group Buy Gosling Racing & Independent Designs Front and Rear Brace

How involved is the rear brace install? Is it a good alternative to the Vince bar, if I’m not concerned about a hidden reinforcement?
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Old Sat, Sep-15-2018, 05:50:31 PM   #3
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Default Re: Feeler: Group Buy Gosling Racing & Independent Designs Front and Rear Brace

looks hella similar to mason engineering rear brace..
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Old Sat, Sep-15-2018, 06:15:57 PM   #4
WALKD_U
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Default Re: Feeler: Group Buy Gosling Racing & Independent Designs Front and Rear Brace

Quote:
Originally Posted by SQ13 View Post
How involved is the rear brace install? Is it a good alternative to the Vince bar, if I’m not concerned about a hidden reinforcement?
Not that bad, and doesn't require you to drop the subframe
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Old Sat, Sep-15-2018, 06:27:17 PM   #5
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Default Re: Feeler: Group Buy Gosling Racing & Independent Designs Front and Rear Brace

Okay. Do you have install instructions available?
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Old Sat, Sep-15-2018, 06:46:04 PM   #6
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Default Re: Feeler: Group Buy Gosling Racing & Independent Designs Front and Rear Brace

It's a standard x-brace that hooks up to the same points. Mason didn't invent the x-brace.
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Old Sat, Sep-15-2018, 07:12:20 PM   #7
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Default Re: Feeler: Group Buy Gosling Racing & Independent Designs Front and Rear Brace

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Originally Posted by M3_Pilot View Post
It's a standard x-brace that hooks up to the same points. Mason didn't invent the x-brace.
Not sure, but he is, at least, the only one to have a commercially available one going quite a ways back before the vince/cmp/gosling/whoever else era began in the last couple/few years. Afaik.
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Old Sat, Sep-15-2018, 07:22:44 PM   #8
WALKD_U
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Default Re: Feeler: Group Buy Gosling Racing & Independent Designs Front and Rear Brace

Quote:
Originally Posted by SQ13 View Post
Okay. Do you have install instructions available?
I do not but I ask PSDesigns and this was the responds.

Quote:
They don’t come with instructions. We recommend professional installation. Having said that it’s quite simple really. We could produce a basic installation guide if required.
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BMB Stage 4
993whp/651wtq SAE Corrected

2005 JB/BLK 330i ZHP
NA Bolt-ons
207whp/216wtq SAE Corrected

1996 BLU/BLK M3
NA Bolt-ons
235whp/225wtq SAE Corrected

1988 SETA 325I
NA Bolt-ons
165whp/160wtq SAE Corrected
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Old Sat, Sep-15-2018, 08:15:36 PM   #9
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Default Re: Feeler: Group Buy Gosling Racing & Independent Designs Front and Rear Brace

I feel like this xbrace with Vince front subframe mounts along with welded plates should be enough for most applications. I would rather do this then tear up the whole panel.


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Old Sat, Sep-15-2018, 08:25:32 PM   #10
WALKD_U
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Default Re: Feeler: Group Buy Gosling Racing & Independent Designs Front and Rear Brace

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Originally Posted by grke36m3 View Post
I feel like this xbrace with Vince front subframe mounts along with welded plates should be enough for most applications. I would rather do this then tear up the whole panel.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
I wasn't down for tearing up whole panel and trying to reinforce it that way. I already have weld in plates with poly bushings. This will be the last piece trying to beef up the rear subframe along with foam injection.
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993whp/651wtq SAE Corrected

2005 JB/BLK 330i ZHP
NA Bolt-ons
207whp/216wtq SAE Corrected

1996 BLU/BLK M3
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235whp/225wtq SAE Corrected

1988 SETA 325I
NA Bolt-ons
165whp/160wtq SAE Corrected
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Discussing Feeler: Group Buy Gosling Racing & Independent Designs Front and Rear Brace in the Parts for Sale/Wanted Forum - Post your Parts Wanted, and non commercial bmw related items for sale. We ask that companies selling goods become a Sponsor to advertise your goods. at BMW M3 Forum.com (E30 M3 | E36 M3 | E46 M3 | E92 M3 | F80/X)