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E46 M3 (2001-2006) Engine: S54 - Max Hp: 333 hp at 7,900 rpm / 262 lb/ft at 4,900 rpm
Total Produced: 45,000+ - Years Produced: 2001 to 2006.


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Old Fri, Oct-12-2018, 04:38:02 AM   #211
EricSMG
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Default Re: BMW upset with E46 M3 enthusiasts

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Originally Posted by cozmo kraemer View Post
That’s also a good post, and I appreciate the insight. Which do you own right now? I love my car, but find myself lusting for a 911 or Cayman as my primary car. Since I’m BMW through and through, convinced many friends to buy them... e36s and e46s... swore off Porsche, and now I’m there.... I question what’s going on with the brand. They should make something I’d want more than going pcar.
Currently own '18 F80zcp manual and Silver Grey in sig pic.

Well, desire is a complex thing. I love the M3 DNA and I particularly love muscular sedans and I love a good value. Do I want a 911? Sure, but not at that price. It's possible to want many cars at the same time, haha.

I did briefly consider the Cayman S since same price as F80Z stripper but frankly the latter is far, far more attractive to me. And although my first couple test drives left me unsatisfied my gut told me that more time was needed to acclimate to the newer cars, and, that if history tells us anything, BMW knows how to build an M car. So I took a leap of faith.

A Cayman GT4 is of little interest to me, strangely. It's not very attractive and its 100k so too rich for my blood. Plus, it strikes me as a track ready street car which is not my style. There's one at work everyday and while it's a cool car it doesn't pull at me. I don't 'want' it but I do want a Cayman S - not the most handsome cars but I like its understated look compared to GT4 and it's probably way more than enough car. Call me crazy, I know.

A C7 Vette is a sharp looking car and at $60k a hell of a value. Not practical but also probably a good mix of gut wrenching performance and comfort. This is probably the only other new car I'd consider at this point if I were buying today. I bet the low, wide chassis combined with that brute V8 is a killer car to drive. Plus very badass.
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Old Fri, Oct-12-2018, 04:48:24 AM   #212
EricSMG
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Default Re: BMW upset with E46 M3 enthusiasts

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Originally Posted by terraphantm View Post
I mostly agree with your post, but the subframe issues strongly contradict this point. The E46 chassis is more suited for a 4 banger than the s54.
Well, if think you understand that I meant handling/control rather than physical strength but good point.

The 46M chassis is incredible until it breaks, haha. Problem is that they increased its potency, potential and grip but carried over the 36 basic structure more or less.... total bonehead move. Actually, they went backwards - all of my 36Ms had factory subframe reinforcement plates. True story.
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Old Fri, Oct-12-2018, 10:28:40 AM   #213
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Default Re: BMW upset with E46 M3 enthusiasts

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Originally Posted by EricSMG View Post
Well, if think you understand that I meant handling/control rather than physical strength but good point.

The 46M chassis is incredible until it breaks, haha. Problem is that they increased its potency, potential and grip but carried over the 36 basic structure more or less.... total bonehead move. Actually, they went backwards - all of my 36Ms had factory subframe reinforcement plates. True story.
Yeah I know what you were saying, and don’t get me wrong, I love driving my car. But I do get a little pissed off everytime I think of the ‘subframe’ issues. The engineers completely dropped the ball on that. Thankfully we have folks like Vince and Redish who basically rengineered the damn thing.
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Old Fri, Oct-12-2018, 10:40:05 AM   #214
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Default Re: BMW upset with E46 M3 enthusiasts

What does BMW expect ? The latest all singing all dancing M2 Competition posted a slower 'ring lap time than his favourite car . 7.52:36 compared to 7.50 of the CSL . Given the Nurburgring is now acknowledged as being a couple of seconds faster now than it was back then (due to the improvements to Flugplatz and other parts of the circuit considered dangerous following "that" tragic incident from a few years ago), of course every subsequent M-car is still going to be benchmarked against this UNTIL they build something that is dynamically better (biased opinion ) .....

They need to build a 1400kg (3000ish lb) car, not keep giving more power to cars that weigh closer to 1600kg (3500ish lb).....

In addition, if the guy at BMW is saying that the most important thing for the M-cars is that the: "First thing and this is for me the most important thing; you can drive fast and completely relaxed. You don’t feel how fast you are."; then no wonder previous M-car owners feel disenfranchised from the brand, you want an M-car to FEEL fast, as that makes you feel connected to the car and provides extra involvement. The problem with a car NOT feeling fast is that you have to drive it well outside the speed limits to gain a sense of excitement. The current MX5 is slow as anything, BUT the ride, handling and FEEL all combine to make it an outstanding "fun" car to drive. Other car manufacturers would do well to remember this, rather than building just unexciting "appliances" that are devoid of any feeling of connection.

I worry for the brand if this guy feels that the same anodyne qualities of a s h i t b o x daily should be applied across the whole range .
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Last edited by Mike RT4; Fri, Oct-12-2018 at 02:50:30 PM. Reason: Added further opinion LOL
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Old Fri, Oct-12-2018, 01:52:17 PM   #215
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Default Re: BMW upset with E46 M3 enthusiasts

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Originally Posted by EricSMG View Post
Agree that cars are getting big - it's happening across the board so not a BMW-specific thing. However, I have two questions:

1 - What defines a big car?
2 - Why don't you like/want the 2 series? (I don't for my own reasons but curious to hear yours.)
Just so we are on the same page, I am referring to weekend cars as I don't have a commute.

1 - Anything bigger than an e46. Personally, the e46 is as big as I want to go and every time I drive my e30, I wish the e46 was smaller.

2 - I don't like the looks of the 2 series which is a deal-breaker for me.

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Old Fri, Oct-12-2018, 03:42:32 PM   #216
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Default Re: BMW upset with E46 M3 enthusiasts

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Originally Posted by BTB View Post
If I'm honest, I would prefer a McLaren F1
Honestly, from what I've read about the McLaren it kinda reminds me of the M3.. which probably shouldn't be surprising given the heart of the thing.
  • The car drives differently depending on whether it's warmed up or not - you're really not supposed to drive it hard cold
  • The car expects to be driven hard, and to be driven hard well for best results
  • There are no nannies - (of the F1)"It’s a bit like a loaded gun—you have to know how to handle it, all the time. Not like cars now." ..kinda like how in a modern car, you have to undertake many tasks to undo ALL nannies.. I like how the M3 just has *one* button to turn it all off.
  • They expected people to work on it (however outlandish it might seem). Leno on the F1: "What’s funniest is that the car comes with a tool roll. The most beautiful tool set you’ve ever seen. Titanium wrenches that weigh mere ounces. The idea that, if your McLaren breaks down on the 101, you’re going to get out the tool roll and fix it."
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Old Fri, Oct-12-2018, 03:55:41 PM   #217
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Default Re: BMW upset with E46 M3 enthusiasts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike RT4 View Post
They need to build a 1400kg (3000ish lb) car, not keep giving more power to cars that weigh closer to 1600kg (3500ish lb).....

In addition, if the guy at BMW is saying that the most important thing for the M-cars is that the: "First thing and this is for me the most important thing; you can drive fast and completely relaxed. You don’t feel how fast you are."; then no wonder previous M-car owners feel disenfranchised from the brand, you want an M-car to FEEL fast, as that makes you feel connected to the car and provides extra involvement.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Wolfe View Post
Just so we are on the same page, I am referring to weekend cars as I don't have a commute.

1 - Anything bigger than an e46. Personally, the e46 is as big as I want to go and every time I drive my e30, I wish the e46 was smaller.

2 - I don't like the looks of the 2 series which is a deal-breaker for me.

Mr. Wolfe

I agree with that, but I still might get an M2. It's not as pretty as the e46 M3, but it does look pretty aggressive with its wide stance, and is far from being a cookie cutter model than the rest of BMW's line up.
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Old Fri, Oct-12-2018, 04:05:04 PM   #218
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Default Re: BMW upset with E46 M3 enthusiasts

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They expected people to work on it (however outlandish it might seem). Leno on the F1: "What’s funniest is that the car comes with a tool roll. The most beautiful tool set you’ve ever seen. Titanium wrenches that weigh mere ounces. The idea that, if your McLaren breaks down on the 101, you’re going to get out the tool roll and fix it."
This is another thing that’s significantly different, and likely to hurt long term values.

A significant part of why I sold our e9X was that I despised working on it. No part of the car felt like it was designed to be serviced.
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Old Fri, Oct-12-2018, 04:18:44 PM   #219
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Default Re: BMW upset with E46 M3 enthusiasts

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Originally Posted by Obioban View Post
This is another thing that’s significantly different, and likely to hurt long term values.

A significant part of why I sold our e9X was that I despised working on it. No part of the car felt like it was designed to be serviced.
Yup, still not as bad as some domestics, but there's no denying that the finance department has been running the show recently
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Old Fri, Oct-12-2018, 04:22:02 PM   #220
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Default Re: BMW upset with E46 M3 enthusiasts

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Originally Posted by nasieg View Post
I agree with that, but I still might get an M2. It's not as pretty as the e46 M3, but it does look pretty aggressive with its wide stance, and is far from being a cookie cutter model than the rest of BMW's line up.
I think you should go with the competition model. It's got a detuned S55 and all of the fancy diff software, chassis bracing, etc., from the M3/M4 models. The suspension is the same as the standard M2, though.

It's probably an ANIMAL. To bad it weighs the same as the big brothers but it is significantly smaller so that's good.
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Discussing BMW upset with E46 M3 enthusiasts in the E46 M3 (2001-2006) Forum - Engine: S54 - Max Hp: 333 hp at 7,900 rpm / 262 lb/ft at 4,900 rpm
Total Produced: 45,000+ - Years Produced: 2001 to 2006. at BMW M3 Forum.com (E30 M3 | E36 M3 | E46 M3 | E92 M3 | F80/X)