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Old Fri, Sep-09-2016, 08:14:27 PM   #141
paffy
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Default Re: paffy GTS4 build

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Originally Posted by BlackHawkRacing View Post
Interesting stuff man, really enjoying the build! Where did you learn to weld? Self taught? It's tne thing I've always wanted to learn but havent gotten around to.
Self taught. Youtube + destructive testing of the welds If you ever airbrushed something, you'll be fine TIG welding.
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Old Fri, Sep-09-2016, 08:17:39 PM   #142
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Default Re: paffy GTS4 build

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Originally Posted by bigjae1976 View Post
Nice! You can probably downgrade the primary wire to 8ga aluminum wire and save a couple more lbs.


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For now, I'm reusing the factory wires (in a different configuration). There'll around 3 ft of heavy duty wire total, I don't see much weight savings there. I'm keeping the battery at either the "drug bin" or passenger footwell.

I want to do a proper race car switch panel, but I've figure I'
ll rewire everything the original way first, then modify later.
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Old Fri, Sep-09-2016, 08:20:36 PM   #143
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Default Re: paffy GTS4 build

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I agree it should not rip off. But unless you have it, and I just didn't see it, you should add a sleeve between the added sheet metal pieces. Without it you wont be able to torque the studs/bolt so they get properly stretched as your sheet metal pieces will simply deform as you tighten the nuts/bolts.

With a, let's say ID 14 mm sleeve secured between your sheet metal "caps" they will however not deform due to the torquing.

Similar to how there's typically a metal sleeve inside the rubber pieces in an upper rear shock mount.


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I've used 4130 Cro-moly steel sheet, 3.2mm thick. That's not deforming for sure - it's probably the strongest part of the sandwich !
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Old Fri, Sep-09-2016, 11:51:06 PM   #144
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Default Re: paffy GTS4 build

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I've used 4130 Cro-moly steel sheet, 3.2mm thick. That's not deforming for sure - it's probably the strongest part of the sandwich !


I'm just trying to help, but it's your car so you can certainly do whatever you want/believe in.

I should have used the term deflect, and not deform.

And, as I'm sure you know, Young's modules of elasticity varies very little between steel alloys.

So while a high strength steel alloy can take more stress (than say a mild steel) and still return to it's original shape, it still deflects just as much as a mild steel.

And those caps will deflect well before the bolts stretch/deflect.

And by the time the bolts properly stretched/deflected, and the oscillating torque load is applied, I'm pretty sure the 3,2mm thick caps (there basically large washers with small, relatively speaking, holes) will have deformed. Thus leading to the bolts/nuts risking to come loose.

At the very least you'll likely experience a clatter as the caps deflect, and a clearance is created between the bolt heads/nuts, as the rear axle torque is loaded/unloaded.

The adjustment I'm suggesting is very simple. Just enlarge the center hole enough to get a steel tube to slide in. Weld it and grind the surfaces.

There's no way a reasonably sized steel tube will buckle before the bolts have stretched sufficiently.

Again, just some engineering advice. It's up to you to use it or not.

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Old Sat, Sep-10-2016, 12:11:25 AM   #145
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Default Re: paffy GTS4 build

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Originally Posted by VinceSE2 View Post
I'm just trying to help, but it's your car so you can certainly do whatever you want/believe in.

I should have used the term deflect, and not deform.

And, as I'm sure you know, Young's modules of elasticity varies very little between steel alloys.

So while a high strength steel alloy can take more stress (than say a mild steel) and still return to it's original shape, it still deflects just as much as a mild steel.

And those caps will deflect well before the bolts stretch/deflect.

And by the time the bolts properly stretched/deflected, and the oscillating torque load is applied, I'm pretty sure the 3,2mm thick caps (there basically large washers with small, relatively speaking, holes) will have deformed. Thus leading to the bolts/nuts risking to come loose.

At the very least you'll likely experience a clatter as the caps deflect, and a clearance is created between the bolt heads/nuts, as the rear axle torque is loaded/unloaded.

The adjustment I'm suggesting is very simple. Just enlarge the center hole enough to get a steel tube to slide in. Weld it and grind the surfaces.

There's no way a reasonably sized steel tube will buckle before the bolts have stretched sufficiently.

Again, just some engineering advice. It's up to you to use it or not.

Vince



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I get your concern now ! Originally I thought you were talking about the 14mm bolt compressing the steel somehow during assembly.

I still can't picture your suggestion though. Maybe something like this ?
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Last edited by paffy; Sat, Sep-10-2016 at 12:20:03 AM.
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Old Sat, Sep-10-2016, 12:27:08 AM   #146
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Default Re: paffy GTS4 build

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There's a guy down under that went from Manual to SMG on a street car, so maybe the second
Do you have a link to that?

I've been curious about this lately since a local guy said he'd rather have SMG around town.

Obviously if I could weld like Paffy, covering the hole and putting the three little mini bolts to mount the shifter assembly would be no great hurdle. But I'm really curious about what would be involved in getting the wiring from there and elsewhere (fuse box?) to the cabin-side grey connectors that plug in to the SMG ECU. (I've done the swap in reverse, but just said screw it when the notion of thinning that half came up... that bundle coming from the cabin is TIGHT. Maybe I just need to go ahead and do it.)

Paffy - re: fuel starvation. IIRC, about thirty four or thirty five Kaiv cars ago, he did a double pump solution for that very same issue in an E46. Or maybe it was his S54 E36. Who the hell knows, he changes cars like I change pants...

What's interesting is that I just noticed that Autocraft made Lithium batteries today when I was picking a regular one up for my convertible. From the website I imagined they were about the same size as my Phantom, but now that I've looked at the specs I see they're even smaller. Heck, that's almost small enough to fit in the glove box! (In a car that uses a glove box, that is.)

I wonder if there's a way to fabricate a plastic chip clip-like pressure-based quick release for the negative terminal of a battery like that so that it could be kept in the cabin of a car that still has an interior, but still be safe... while also being able to easily disconnect it and/or hook it to a tender. (Worst case would be drug bin, but I'm also currently a fan of GTFour's solution for having the coolant expansion tank and catch can neatly mounted in there.)

Last edited by Dave B; Sat, Sep-10-2016 at 12:34:43 AM.
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Old Sat, Sep-10-2016, 12:39:11 AM   #147
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Default Re: paffy GTS4 build

1 metric ton should deflect it 0.3mm
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Old Sat, Sep-10-2016, 12:42:52 AM   #148
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Default Re: paffy GTS4 build

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Paffy - re: fuel starvation. IIRC, about thirty four or thirty five Kaiv cars ago, he did a double pump solution for that very same issue in an E46.

The BW kit is just a second OE pump with the assembly rotated 90 degrees so it fits in the hole. Then you fit a hose which the secondary pumps to the primary pump. The pump tops should have the inlet and outlet to connect the crossover hose.


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Old Sat, Sep-10-2016, 12:59:21 AM   #149
paffy
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Default Re: paffy GTS4 build

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The BW kit is just a second OE pump with the assembly rotated 90 degrees so it fits in the hole. Then you fit a hose which the secondary pumps to the primary pump. The pump tops should have the inlet and outlet to connect the crossover hose.


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And I think it's an overly complicated setup !

All I've done is take some $10 pump and use it to transfer the fuel over the saddle. The fuel return still goes to the left side. I've also disconnected the sucking jet pump, so this additional electric pump shouldn't be running dry.

All the wiring and hoses are internal to the tank and no additional holes required in the blue caps.

Bonus is the original fuel level sensor lever, so I should get accurate reading.
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Old Sun, Sep-11-2016, 03:04:47 AM   #150
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Default Re: paffy GTS4 build

Re-wiring the car is the most frustrating thing so far. I ended up wrapping all wires based on function/location together to limit the mess.

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Discussing paffy GTS4 build in the Member Journals Forum - Do you have a long term project you would like to share with the community? Use this forum to create a single thread which you can update over time to document the progress. at BMW M3 Forum.com (E30 M3 | E36 M3 | E46 M3 | E92 M3 | F80/X)