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E36 M3 (1992-1999) {Euro - S50 B32 321hp @ 7400 rpm} {U.S. - S52 B32 240 hp @ 6000 rpm}
Total Produced: 71,212 - Years Produced: 1992 to 1999


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Old Thu, Nov-15-2007, 02:21:16 AM   #1
Gorgerax
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Default Question: is Understeer simply poor driver's technique?

First off, I'm not a racer and have never taken any driver/racing classes. So, it's highly likely I'm way off base...but I constantly see peeps talking about understeer this and understeer that. Staggered wheel widths cause understeer, brand X coilovers cause understeer, ANY parts bought off eBay cause understeer (OK...I made that one up)

But what I've noticed that almost no matter what changes on the M and no matter how (to a point) I enter a high speed turn, if it looks like I'm a little "under" i.e., drifting towards the outside of the curve, all I have to do is give it a little more throttle and she jumps right into the groove and carves a perfect arc. In other words, accelarating through turns correctly eliminates understeer.

Am I all wet?
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Old Thu, Nov-15-2007, 02:47:49 AM   #2
DustenT
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorgerax View Post
First off, I'm not a racer and have never taken any driver/racing classes. So, it's highly likely I'm way off base...but I constantly see peeps talking about understeer this and understeer that. Staggered wheel widths cause understeer, brand X coilovers cause understeer, ANY parts bought off eBay cause understeer (OK...I made that one up)

But what I've noticed that almost no matter what changes on the M and no matter how (to a point) I enter a high speed turn, if it looks like I'm a little "under" i.e., drifting towards the outside of the curve, all I have to do is give it a little more throttle and she jumps right into the groove and carves a perfect arc. In other words, accelarating through turns correctly eliminates understeer.

Am I all wet?
Staggered wheels do in fact cause understeer. With non-staggered setup you can REALLY throttle steer.
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Old Thu, Nov-15-2007, 02:50:06 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by DustenT View Post
Staggered wheels do in fact cause understeer. With non-staggered setup you can REALLY throttle steer.
Eh... whatever...

Find me one true GT car that runs non-staggered.

Staggered = Superior
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Old Thu, Nov-15-2007, 04:00:33 AM   #4
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Old Thu, Nov-15-2007, 04:00:39 AM   #5
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A good driver can easily make understeer a non-issue.

Even with a staggered setup (I think Bray has the same setup I had) you can still dial it out through other means in the suspension. It was not an issue on my car and it ran like a scalded dog on the track.
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Old Thu, Nov-15-2007, 04:37:08 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by Braymond141 View Post
Eh... whatever...

Find me one true GT car that runs non-staggered.

Staggered = Superior
dumbest statement ever?
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Old Thu, Nov-15-2007, 04:38:28 AM   #7
Braymond141
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dumbest statement ever?
Possible Sean. But the point is the wheel setup doesnt make the driver.

You know that.
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Old Thu, Nov-15-2007, 04:41:55 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Braymond141 View Post
Eh... whatever...

Find me one true GT car that runs non-staggered.

Staggered = Superior
That's because true GT cars have, uh, a lot more power than the M3. Staggered tires aren't inherently bad. They just aren't inherently good. And a vehicle that is balanced towards understeer needs more grip in front, not in the rear.

But to answer the OP's question, understeer is absolutely not simply driver's technique. Driver's technique can be used to drive AROUND understeering tendencies, but the tendencies are still there.

Also, you aren't encountering real understeer if it can be "corrected" by more throttle. The M3 hasn't got enough power to throw the rear out on demand, so you'd just be creating more plow - you're driving too slowly for grip level differences to matter.
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Old Thu, Nov-15-2007, 04:44:20 AM   #9
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Seconded- understeer is real. Staggered tires make an inherently understeering car understeer worse.
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Old Thu, Nov-15-2007, 04:44:55 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by Nick325xiT 5spd View Post
That's because true GT cars have, uh, a lot more power than the M3. Staggered tires aren't inherently bad. They just aren't inherently good. And a vehicle that is balanced towards understeer needs more grip in front, not in the rear.
Yes I know...

lol alright... seems people dont understand. Was just sticking up for staggered setups since people are brainwashed into thinking non-staggered is OMG UNHOLY.
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Discussing Troubleshooting Codes in the E36 M3 (1992-1999) Forum - {Euro - S50 B32 321hp @ 7400 rpm} {U.S. - S52 B32 240 hp @ 6000 rpm}
Total Produced: 71,212 - Years Produced: 1992 to 1999 at BMW M3 Forum.com (E30 M3 | E36 M3 | E46 M3 | E92 M3 | F80/X)